Will Sasso: Comedy, MADtv, AI, Friendship, Madness, and Pro Wrestling #323

Transcript

00:00:00 Once this whole thing falls apart

00:00:01 and we are climbing the kudzu vines

00:00:04 that spiral up the Sears Tower,

00:00:05 like they say in Fight Club,

00:00:06 Bobby will go back to his gatherer form

00:00:09 and be happy as a pig in shit,

00:00:11 just walking around in a loincloth

00:00:12 with his bird hanging out,

00:00:14 tracking jokes to people and climbing up on them

00:00:16 for a stool lap dance or whatever he does.

00:00:18 Do you think some level of crazy is required for comedy?

00:00:22 Like, at some point?

00:00:24 Yes.

00:00:25 Have there been low points in your life?

00:00:27 Yeah, I don’t know, hey, hey.

00:00:30 Eh?

00:00:31 Eh?

00:00:32 Eh?

00:00:33 Ha ha ha ha.

00:00:35 The following is a conversation with Will Sasso,

00:00:38 a comedian, actor, podcaster,

00:00:41 and someone I’ve been a fan of for many years

00:00:44 since Mad TV in the late 90s

00:00:46 to recently with the 10 Minute Podcast

00:00:50 and now the new podcast called Doodzee.

00:00:54 This is the Lex Friedman Podcast.

00:00:56 To support it, please check out our sponsors

00:00:58 in the description.

00:00:59 And now, dear friends, here’s Will Sasso.

00:01:03 So let’s call out the elephant in the room.

00:01:06 You wore a black suit in a recent episode of Doodzee.

00:01:10 Yes.

00:01:13 You wore a black suit again today.

00:01:15 Shakespeare, then Mark Twain, said clothes make the man.

00:01:20 What kind of man does a suit make you?

00:01:22 Well, me in particular, it makes me a fellow

00:01:25 who did not get this dry cleaned in between

00:01:28 because that episode of the show as we sit here now

00:01:30 was around a week ago.

00:01:32 So that’s the kind of man it makes me.

00:01:35 Well, the nice thing is you’re wearing pants, I think.

00:01:38 Yes, I am wearing pants.

00:01:39 I don’t think you were wearing pants in the episode.

00:01:41 That’s correct.

00:01:42 I prefer to wear shorts, but this was a special occasion

00:01:45 so I’m wearing pants and I thought it fitting, obviously,

00:01:48 to just wear the black tie.

00:01:51 And clothes do make the man.

00:01:53 And I would not consider myself to be a man of leisure,

00:01:56 but I do enjoy shorts because my legs get hot.

00:02:00 So that’s what kind of man the shorts make me.

00:02:02 How often do you wear a suit?

00:02:03 I fucking hate wearing suits.

00:02:05 So what is this, a statement of, is it ironic?

00:02:09 Or are you honoring the gods of this particular podcast?

00:02:12 I’m honoring the gods of this particular podcast

00:02:14 would be a good way to put it.

00:02:15 Yes, no, this is in reverence of and in dedication to you

00:02:19 and our newfound friendship here,

00:02:21 which we are making on the podcast.

00:02:26 You and I just met.

00:02:27 Everything that we’re saying here

00:02:28 is the first things that we’re saying to each other.

00:02:31 So I’m meeting you on common ground dressed like.

00:02:33 Well, I’ve been actually a one way friend of yours

00:02:36 for many, many years since Mad TV.

00:02:38 Oh.

00:02:39 When did you start on Mad TV?

00:02:40 So that was, I mean, in 90s?

00:02:42 97, yeah.

00:02:43 97.

00:02:44 So I was a huge fan of yours and the cast was incredible.

00:02:46 It was one of the funniest shows ever created.

00:02:49 Your whole journey watching through that

00:02:51 was incredible from Mad TV to Three Stooges

00:02:53 to the podcasts, the 10 Minute Pod

00:02:57 and then the new podcast is incredible.

00:03:00 Cheers.

00:03:01 My favorite role that you played

00:03:02 was the mountain in the Game of Thrones.

00:03:05 What was it like working with dragons?

00:03:08 Well, the dragons are usually tennis balls

00:03:11 on the end of C stands, but sometimes they hang out.

00:03:17 I am.

00:03:18 It’s a C stand.

00:03:19 It’s like, you know, it’s like a little,

00:03:20 like the thing you got the camera on here.

00:03:21 Oh, this is like film lingo.

00:03:22 Yeah, no, I understand.

00:03:23 I’m trying to impress you with my film lingo.

00:03:25 You know what a banana is?

00:03:27 Yeah.

00:03:28 It’s when you walk like this.

00:03:29 Oh.

00:03:29 Do a banana.

00:03:30 I take it back.

00:03:31 I did not know what a banana was.

00:03:32 Yeah, see?

00:03:33 I misunderstood.

00:03:34 Yeah, cause it’s just a food.

00:03:35 Yeah.

00:03:36 Normally.

00:03:37 You fancy Hollywood folk with a lingo.

00:03:40 And I’m, my name is Bjorn Hapthor Bjornsson

00:03:44 and I am seven foot four and yeah.

00:03:47 So dragons don’t, dragons don’t scare me

00:03:49 even though they’ve been extinct for a while.

00:03:51 You’re a scientist, right?

00:03:52 Is that checkout?

00:03:54 Yeah, I actually, I’m really into video games.

00:03:56 I don’t know if you play video games.

00:03:57 There’s a, there’s a Skyrim video game

00:04:01 that’s part of the Elder Scrolls series.

00:04:03 And for the longest time,

00:04:04 there’s a legend that there’s dragons.

00:04:06 I think it started in Daggerfall.

00:04:07 And so I always, I grew up playing those video games

00:04:10 and dreaming of one day meeting a dragon in a virtual world.

00:04:14 And eventually you did in Skyrim.

00:04:16 So it’s, dragons represent,

00:04:19 I don’t know exactly what they represent,

00:04:21 but they represent maybe this kind of mythical creature

00:04:24 that is bigger than anything humans

00:04:27 can possibly comprehend maybe.

00:04:30 Cause they’re so, they’re so, they show up so often in myth

00:04:33 from the, from the religious stories, you know,

00:04:37 of the snake and so on, the serpent.

00:04:39 And I don’t know what that is.

00:04:40 Well, this breathing fire, that’s kind of weird.

00:04:42 It’s interesting when I think about dragons,

00:04:44 cause now that you bring it up,

00:04:45 these are people that probably wouldn’t have access

00:04:47 to the fact that there used to be dinosaurs.

00:04:49 Maybe they did.

00:04:50 If they didn’t, they’re drawing things that look like,

00:04:54 you know, a dinosaur cousin, but cool,

00:04:57 that can breathe fire and has wacky wings and a spiked tail.

00:05:02 Yeah, where the heck did they come up with that?

00:05:04 Cause they’re clearly of course represented in mythology

00:05:07 all the way back to, no, not cave drawings.

00:05:10 Well, the Egyptians probably knew what the,

00:05:12 and they could time travel.

00:05:13 So they would have gone back to the caves.

00:05:15 Well, the aliens that placed living organisms on earth

00:05:20 could time travel and they could plant legends

00:05:23 into the, into the collective intelligence

00:05:25 of the human species.

00:05:27 Yeah, and perhaps they were thinking of us

00:05:29 to do something smart with it.

00:05:30 And we didn’t, we just came up with the sky.

00:05:32 No.

00:05:33 We’re just, what’s that?

00:05:33 Sorry, that was very offensive.

00:05:35 I’m sorry, I don’t mean to offend you with your video game.

00:05:37 I’m more of a burger time Donkey Kong dude.

00:05:42 Oh, what is that?

00:05:44 That’s an original.

00:05:45 Burger time was an arcade game that later showed up

00:05:48 on the Intellivision, it was Intellivision.

00:05:52 I believe it was made by Texas Instruments,

00:05:54 horrible first generation video game console.

00:05:58 And burger time, you just, it’s like Super Mario.

00:06:00 You just got to stay away from the eggs

00:06:03 and the pickles and stuff.

00:06:04 And you just go, and the bun falls.

00:06:07 And then you go down to the and the cheese and then the meat.

00:06:11 I’m not going to say it’s as complicated

00:06:12 as Skyrim, but took me a while to finish it when I was seven.

00:06:17 Did you play video games, was that a part of your life,

00:06:20 a part of the source of happiness for you at all?

00:06:22 It was, it was.

00:06:24 I played video games up until around, I think in 2010,

00:06:28 I got the Red Ring of Death on my Xbox 360.

00:06:31 That was it?

00:06:32 That was it.

00:06:33 I never, or whatever the Xbox was then.

00:06:35 Yeah.

00:06:36 I had, I was playing, I had finished the Grand Theft Auto

00:06:40 that was out and finished the Red Dead Redemption.

00:06:42 So I was doing that thing where you just drive around,

00:06:46 you know, the streets of New York or just ride around

00:06:49 on your horse shooting people and, you know,

00:06:51 throwing grenades into groups of people in Grand Theft.

00:06:55 And you’re describing the same thing that happened

00:06:57 a decade later, because it’s now Red Dead Redemption 2

00:07:01 and there’s still not a new Grand Theft Auto, so.

00:07:03 Yeah, there isn’t, right?

00:07:05 Yeah, they’re working on it.

00:07:06 They’re always flirting with that idea.

00:07:07 You know who else plays Skyrim?

00:07:10 Another person, the two people I’m a huge fan of

00:07:12 from that time in Matt TV is Bobby Lee.

00:07:14 He plays Skyrim?

00:07:15 He’s a huge fan of Skyrim.

00:07:16 He plays every.

00:07:17 So what Bobby Lee loves to do is to grind,

00:07:22 do the boring task over and over, gather mushrooms.

00:07:25 Like in Skyrim, you can fight dragons,

00:07:27 you can fight all kinds of things,

00:07:29 but you can also gather mushrooms and different ingredients

00:07:31 to make potions and all that kind of stuff.

00:07:34 He loves the ingredients.

00:07:35 He’s the, you know, in the hunter gatherer world,

00:07:37 he’s the gatherer.

00:07:38 He’s the gatherer.

00:07:39 Yeah, I’ve heard him described that way

00:07:42 and he likes to describe himself that way.

00:07:44 I worked with Bobby not too long ago.

00:07:46 He came and did a couple days on this thing we were shooting

00:07:49 and I was looking forward to catching up with my old pal.

00:07:52 And if you know anything about Bobby Lee,

00:07:54 you’d probably be able to predict that he spent

00:07:56 that entire time playing farming on his iPad.

00:07:59 Well, humans are a source of anxiety and trouble,

00:08:03 so sometimes it’s good to escape human interaction

00:08:05 through video games.

00:08:06 Totally.

00:08:07 I’m with him on that.

00:08:07 He’s one of the funniest people ever.

00:08:11 Totally.

00:08:11 What do you think makes him funny?

00:08:14 It’s just all the times you’ve worked with him,

00:08:16 the nonstandard, nonsecular way of his being.

00:08:22 Bobby Lee is one of the most raw people,

00:08:26 raw performers who lets it all hang out

00:08:29 to the degree that he will even get naked

00:08:31 in front of his audience,

00:08:32 which is usually a metaphor for someone doing standup.

00:08:35 I’m bearing all, I’m showing you everything,

00:08:38 and Bobby will just pull his bird out of his pants.

00:08:40 Yeah, I don’t think he understands metaphor too much.

00:08:43 He embodies metaphor.

00:08:44 Yes, he embodies metaphor.

00:08:46 He’s the gatherer, we call him the gathering metaphor.

00:08:49 Bobby the gatherer metaphor.

00:08:50 He’s a metaphor for something else,

00:08:52 for somebody else’s life.

00:08:53 Someday he’ll be in the dictionary

00:08:57 representing some kind of concept,

00:08:58 maybe the metaphor itself.

00:09:00 Yeah, once this whole thing falls apart

00:09:02 and we are climbing the kudzu vines

00:09:04 that spiral up the Sears Tower,

00:09:06 like they say in Fight Club,

00:09:07 Bobby will go back to his gatherer form

00:09:09 and be happy as a pig in shit,

00:09:12 just walking around in a loincloth

00:09:13 with his bird hanging out,

00:09:14 tracking jokes to people and climbing up on them

00:09:17 for a stool lap dance or whatever he does.

00:09:19 I’d love to dig into something he did.

00:09:22 You guys did a lot of great podcasts together.

00:09:24 He asked you in a very uncomfortable process

00:09:28 of why you don’t do standup.

00:09:29 So let me ask you, do you hate money?

00:09:33 Well, I’m originally from Canada, yeah.

00:09:36 So yeah, I’m a fricking pinko socialist.

00:09:40 Is that where you come from?

00:09:42 That’s not a nice thing to say.

00:09:44 I thought the Soviet Union,

00:09:46 that is a nice thing to say.

00:09:47 Like comrade, he’s a good socialist with red,

00:09:56 like some bold colors, yeah.

00:09:58 There was an interesting tension in your voice

00:10:00 and the way you talked about it.

00:10:01 There’s just not a source of happiness for you.

00:10:04 You respect the art form,

00:10:05 but it was not something that you were connected to,

00:10:08 you felt connected to.

00:10:09 That’s a good way to put it.

00:10:10 Yeah, I respect the art form a lot.

00:10:14 And I grew up with all the albums and stuff.

00:10:16 I had an older brother and sister who,

00:10:18 so we had George Carlin, we had Richard Pryor,

00:10:23 we had Robert Klein, we had Gilda Live,

00:10:26 the Gilda Radner concert, we had all sorts of stuff.

00:10:30 But I don’t know, there’s a lot of reasons.

00:10:33 I do feel like a career in show business

00:10:37 is it never goes the way you plan, like most things.

00:10:41 And I was fortunate enough to get started

00:10:44 outside of my native Vancouver or in my native Vancouver.

00:10:47 I grew up in the burbs outside

00:10:48 and there was a lot of industry there.

00:10:50 So I was fortunate enough to get started as an actor

00:10:53 when I was like 16.

00:10:54 So yeah, there were some times early on

00:10:59 where I came up with some standup stuff and did it,

00:11:03 but yeah, I quickly abandoned it.

00:11:06 And then you go through, you do Mad TV and stuff,

00:11:09 and that’s where my, and this is gonna sound weird.

00:11:13 Do I sound as anxiety as I did when I was on Bobby’s podcast

00:11:16 trying to avoid his questions?

00:11:18 Well, he was giving you this face this whole time

00:11:20 that was making the whole just atmosphere feel

00:11:24 full of anxiety.

00:11:25 So I’m trying not to give you a face.

00:11:26 The whole time I was saying, play cool, play cool.

00:11:28 Yeah, okay.

00:11:30 Play cool, Lex.

00:11:31 Play cool.

00:11:31 You said it out loud a couple of times.

00:11:33 I did.

00:11:34 Just, you know, you cut that out.

00:11:35 Play cool.

00:11:35 Play cool, dude.

00:11:36 Cut out, cut it out.

00:11:37 Maintain, bro.

00:11:38 Here’s what I’ll say.

00:11:39 There’s two ways to do it.

00:11:40 I think it’s lame when someone who’s done one thing

00:11:42 for a while goes and starts doing standup out of nowhere.

00:11:46 Cause I think it’s an art form that’s under attack

00:11:49 because it’s not like anything else.

00:11:51 You need, although now you can of course,

00:11:55 you know, make whatever you want.

00:11:56 It’s the era of self publishing as far as making a product

00:11:59 and putting it out there, which is getting easier,

00:12:01 of course, and I can’t wait to talk to you about that

00:12:03 with AI and how it’s changing art.

00:12:07 But in standup, all you need is a microphone

00:12:12 and you know, perhaps it’d be good

00:12:14 to have some mental illness

00:12:16 and then you can just run up there and talk forever.

00:12:20 And I say this to, you know, comedians.

00:12:22 It’s like, you guys have to deal with just

00:12:25 an influx of people who aren’t sure

00:12:29 why they’re doing comedy.

00:12:30 I would ask comedians, I mean, not good ones,

00:12:33 good ones, you know what they’re doing,

00:12:34 but everyone else like, what are you doing?

00:12:36 Why, why are you doing standup?

00:12:38 Having said that, I am allergic to money.

00:12:40 Yeah, do you think they have a good answer for that?

00:12:42 Why are they doing it?

00:12:43 Cause I actually like when I’m in Austin,

00:12:45 I like going to open mics, just listening.

00:12:47 It’s inspiring to me, both the funny and the unfunny people

00:12:52 because they’ve been doing it for several years.

00:12:55 Sometimes over a decade and they’re still at it.

00:12:58 They’re still right there.

00:12:58 There’s going for the punch and then especially open mics

00:13:02 that are really sad in that there’s, you know,

00:13:05 only like five other people in the audience

00:13:07 and they’re usually just other comedians

00:13:10 and they’re still going all out

00:13:12 as if they’re in front of a stadium.

00:13:14 But that to me sounds like someone who loves it.

00:13:16 Yeah.

00:13:17 I got no questions for that person.

00:13:19 I got questions for someone who goes sideways

00:13:21 from here I’m recognizable doing something

00:13:24 and then I’m doing standup because it’s like,

00:13:28 and truly look, I’ve been fortunate enough

00:13:30 to be in the business for a long time

00:13:31 and at this point, if I came up,

00:13:33 I mean, doing live stuff is fun.

00:13:35 I have friends that are like, you know,

00:13:37 some guys who are primarily sketch people

00:13:40 or you would look at them as sketch people

00:13:42 and they can sell tickets for being sketch people

00:13:44 and they, and we’ll talk about it.

00:13:45 And they’re like, you know, I do a monologue

00:13:47 and I do a little standup, then I do a song,

00:13:50 then I do another monologue, then I play off the audience,

00:13:52 do a little standup, but standup is,

00:13:57 it’s almost like playing music in that,

00:14:01 you know, people are going up there playing music,

00:14:03 but what band have you been listening to?

00:14:04 That’s what you’re gonna sound like.

00:14:06 So it’s really, I mean, of course,

00:14:08 I’m speaking from zero experience,

00:14:10 but I’ve heard it takes years, of course,

00:14:12 to find your own voice.

00:14:14 Standups that when they first go up,

00:14:16 they’re doing some sort of impersonation of so and so

00:14:19 and so and so, and then you gotta pop this audience

00:14:23 that’s paying and you’re gonna get run over

00:14:25 by the next person who’s coming up

00:14:27 and it’s hard to follow the last person

00:14:29 who went up before you.

00:14:31 And I mean, that is a really hard way to,

00:14:34 it’s a very, it’s quite a gauntlet

00:14:36 to be in to find your voice comedically.

00:14:38 But don’t you have that same kind of thing with sketch?

00:14:40 Where you still have to find your own voice

00:14:42 with like all the impressions you do,

00:14:44 they’re just terrible, you know,

00:14:47 there are different spins and different people,

00:14:49 they’re not like perfect impressions, right?

00:14:52 So that’s, I mean, that’s a similar kind of challenge

00:14:55 and journey as standup.

00:14:57 You’re just saying they’re kind of distinct

00:15:00 and you fell into this one and you fell in love with it,

00:15:02 which is like what Mad TV kind of opened you up to.

00:15:05 Yeah, as a kid, I literally wanted to be an actor.

00:15:08 I always wanted to be an actor from a very young age,

00:15:11 as far back as I can remember,

00:15:12 and I was the class clown and wanted to do comedy stuff

00:15:15 and comedic acting and so on.

00:15:17 So comedic acting.

00:15:18 Yeah, early on, my influences were a very predictable list

00:15:22 of guys from SCTV, Early Saturday Night Live, Monty Python,

00:15:29 all of those performers really influenced me.

00:15:32 It was later that I saw people like Kevin Kline,

00:15:36 who’s an incredible actor.

00:15:38 I vividly remember being like 12, 13,

00:15:41 seeing him get an Academy Award for Fish Called Wanda.

00:15:44 And it blew my mind, because I was like, he was hilarious.

00:15:47 I mean, it was one of my favorite movies back then and now.

00:15:50 And he won an Academy Award.

00:15:52 And at that point, I started thinking more about acting.

00:15:58 And then I was, like I said, really fortunate

00:16:00 to fall in with, I mean, I always wanted to do it

00:16:04 and I was trying to hustle this and that when I was a kid.

00:16:06 And then I ended up getting represented.

00:16:09 And then I ended up on a teen show.

00:16:11 I was on, basically, the easiest way to pitch it

00:16:14 is it’s like a Canadian, my so called life

00:16:17 with these kids and their lives and stuff.

00:16:19 And I did that for like five years and I really love acting.

00:16:23 I really, truly love acting.

00:16:25 And I’m not someone who wants people to know my opinion.

00:16:30 So that’s another thing about standup.

00:16:33 Like I love the illusion of what I get to do

00:16:36 in entertainment and podcasting is great for that.

00:16:40 But to stand up there and, I don’t know, just for me,

00:16:45 it’s like it would have to all be fantasy.

00:16:49 Yeah, so Nietzsche said that every profound spirit

00:16:53 needs a mask.

00:16:55 Like you said, you don’t like to talk about,

00:16:58 in your comedy, you don’t like to talk about stuff

00:17:01 that’s personal to you.

00:17:02 Yeah.

00:17:03 What is that?

00:17:04 If you were to psychoanalyze yourself,

00:17:07 do you think it’s just not something you find funny

00:17:10 or are you running from something and it’s not your fault?

00:17:15 Will.

00:17:16 It’s not your fault, Will.

00:17:18 Speaking of another really great comedic actor

00:17:21 who’s also a serious actor, Robin Williams.

00:17:23 One of the best serious actors.

00:17:25 I mean, and one of the funniest people of all time,

00:17:30 but as great, as incredible as he was as a funny man,

00:17:35 as a standup and a performer,

00:17:37 I almost like his serious stuff better.

00:17:39 Can I ask you a question about that?

00:17:41 What do you make of the, that he committed suicide?

00:17:43 I think it’s, I mean, it’s super depressing.

00:17:47 I’ve referred to him as like the Jesus Christ of depression.

00:17:52 It’s almost like he died for others depression.

00:17:54 You know what I mean?

00:17:55 Like.

00:17:56 Yeah, yeah.

00:17:56 You’d look at someone like that and go,

00:17:58 wait a minute, you’re a rockstar.

00:17:59 Like you don’t, you could just check out

00:18:01 if you’re not liking your life.

00:18:03 And of course, something like suicide

00:18:05 begs that you look a little deeper

00:18:07 and realize how tortured the human mind can make someone.

00:18:12 Is there some aspect to, you know, we’re in LA.

00:18:16 Is there some aspect of celebrity that is isolating

00:18:18 that can make you feel really lonely?

00:18:21 Not me.

00:18:22 I don’t feel, no, not really.

00:18:24 You feel the love?

00:18:25 No, I just feel like I’m not, I mean, it’s like,

00:18:28 I don’t know, I’ve always kind of had a small group

00:18:31 of friends and those people don’t, you know,

00:18:34 it’s like I’ve known the same people for years and years.

00:18:37 You never really felt the celebrity really.

00:18:38 Nah, in LA, it’s hard to, it’s hard for people.

00:18:42 Nobody cares.

00:18:42 They see you and then the next minute they see so and so.

00:18:45 So it’s like, you know, I’m the guy from that.

00:18:50 Mike and Molly, right?

00:18:51 Nope, nope.

00:18:52 Close.

00:18:53 King of, you shave your head, you go bald.

00:18:56 Are you King of Queens?

00:18:57 Nope, that’s not me.

00:18:58 So close.

00:19:00 You’re wow, shit, you used to be the mountain

00:19:03 on Game of Thrones.

00:19:04 You look like shit, what happened?

00:19:06 You’ve been just eating fried dough?

00:19:08 Yeah.

00:19:09 Yeah, that’s what’s up.

00:19:11 Can’t lift any weights anymore.

00:19:12 I’m at the gym doing like 15 pounds with shoulder press.

00:19:16 Ah, and people coming up to me.

00:19:19 You used to be a dragon killer, dude.

00:19:21 Half the man you used to be.

00:19:22 What’s, have there been low points in your life?

00:19:25 Sorry to go there, but.

00:19:28 Yeah, I don’t know.

00:19:30 Hey, hey, hey.

00:19:31 Eh?

00:19:32 Eh?

00:19:33 Eh?

00:19:34 Yeah, there’s, everybody has a low point in life.

00:19:38 The operative.

00:19:39 Do you suffer from like depression

00:19:40 and any of those kinds of things?

00:19:41 You know what, I do.

00:19:42 I do, I have a bunch of stuff.

00:19:45 How do you deal with it?

00:19:46 Said friends?

00:19:47 The friends and the.

00:19:48 They don’t do anything for me in that sense.

00:19:51 Yeah.

00:19:52 I have an incredible fiance who,

00:19:55 that’s nice to have somebody constant

00:19:58 that you love very much and see as the best person

00:20:01 and all that good stuff.

00:20:02 Hopefully, vice versa.

00:20:04 And then.

00:20:05 Well, on your recent Instagram,

00:20:06 she said that she loves you, so.

00:20:09 Wow, you were.

00:20:10 At least allegedly.

00:20:11 Just on, yeah, allegedly.

00:20:12 That might all be for, yeah.

00:20:13 That’s all.

00:20:14 How much money did you pay her to say that?

00:20:15 I don’t have any, because I’m not a stand up.

00:20:18 I was like, I can do, you got Venmo?

00:20:20 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:21 I got, I only have like $123.

00:20:23 I can give you some Dogecoin.

00:20:24 Yeah, some Doge.

00:20:25 Yeah.

00:20:26 You got, you want some Doge?

00:20:27 I got some of those monkey NFTs.

00:20:30 Oh, before I forget.

00:20:31 Yes.

00:20:32 Hold on a second.

00:20:33 Oh, no.

00:20:35 Put a dudesie sticker on your microphone if that’s okay.

00:20:38 Sure.

00:20:39 Here.

00:20:40 Oh, yeah.

00:20:41 Now, these are tricky,

00:20:42 because I have the thumbs of a,

00:20:44 I have like Italian sausage thumbs.

00:20:45 Don’t wait and watch this happen.

00:20:46 I’m just gonna.

00:20:48 This will take another.

00:20:49 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:51 Oh, man.

00:20:52 Yeah, ooh, this is embarrassing.

00:20:53 When this, are you good under pressure?

00:20:57 Sure.

00:20:57 I have anxiety.

00:20:58 I have performance anxiety.

00:20:59 Do you have anxiety?

00:21:01 Yeah.

00:21:01 You have anxiety, period?

00:21:02 Period.

00:21:03 Yeah.

00:21:04 I, I.

00:21:05 Like, I don’t like it when I,

00:21:06 if I have to pee and then everyone’s waiting

00:21:09 in the urinals.

00:21:10 Yeah.

00:21:10 Yeah.

00:21:11 I don’t like it.

00:21:12 You know what’ll help you in that situation?

00:21:13 What’s that?

00:21:14 Taking a shit.

00:21:15 Because whenever you take a shit,

00:21:16 you always pee a little.

00:21:18 It’s hard to take a shit while you’re standing at a urinal,

00:21:20 but.

00:21:21 Not in my world.

00:21:22 Okay.

00:21:23 You just gotta keep yourself full of things

00:21:24 that make you shit.

00:21:25 Oh, good.

00:21:26 Have you ever heard of a banana?

00:21:28 I did recently.

00:21:29 Somebody told me about it.

00:21:29 Yeah.

00:21:30 Not the showbiz term.

00:21:31 I’m talking about the food.

00:21:33 There you go.

00:21:34 Oh.

00:21:34 There we go.

00:21:35 Here you go.

00:21:38 Which way is up?

00:21:38 It’s this way, right?

00:21:39 It’s like a D.

00:21:40 No, to spin it.

00:21:41 There you go.

00:21:42 There you go.

00:21:43 All right.

00:21:46 So sexy.

00:21:48 You’re like a brand.

00:21:50 Yeah.

00:21:50 It’s very important to brand yourself.

00:21:51 These colors.

00:21:52 Are you selling shoes?

00:21:55 Yeah.

00:21:55 I got some custom kicks coming out.

00:21:57 The dudesy.

00:21:59 No.

00:21:59 Actually, that would be a good idea.

00:22:01 You could probably sell a pair or two of those.

00:22:03 Speaking of anxiety,

00:22:04 I really am only focused on this right now, Alex.

00:22:07 I apologize.

00:22:08 Just shit your pants.

00:22:09 It’ll make it easier.

00:22:10 Get on with it.

00:22:12 Oh, this thing has been dog eared in my pocket for a while.

00:22:14 I swear this never happens to me.

00:22:16 I’m sorry, babe.

00:22:17 People don’t thumb at a sticker for an hour

00:22:18 while they’re doing the podcast?

00:22:19 No, this is just an excuse you make

00:22:20 when you’re with somebody and you’re underperforming.

00:22:23 Well, here’s the thing.

00:22:25 As you ask me questions that I don’t wanna answer,

00:22:27 I’ll just go to this.

00:22:28 Go to the sticker.

00:22:29 So if this ends up working,

00:22:32 then I won’t have it as a club.

00:22:32 It’s funny how you started doing that

00:22:34 when we were talking about depression.

00:22:35 That’s weird.

00:22:36 That is weird.

00:22:38 Tell me how that makes you feel.

00:22:42 Here we are.

00:22:43 We got it.

00:22:44 For the listener, he succeeded after 10 minutes.

00:22:47 Yeah.

00:22:48 You know what?

00:22:49 No, I do have some of that stuff.

00:22:51 Bobby Lee had encouraged me on wax, as I like to say,

00:22:56 to talk about it on podcasts, to talk about depression,

00:22:59 because it could help people.

00:23:01 And I said, no.

00:23:02 But it’s true, I do have some.

00:23:06 There’s some history in the family.

00:23:07 How do you overcome it?

00:23:09 Well, I used to not believe in medication at all.

00:23:12 I used to think that that was for someone else

00:23:15 who’s been diagnosed with some of the rougher stuff.

00:23:20 But as I got older and some of the stuff happens,

00:23:24 and you have to, and by stuff, I mean mental stuff.

00:23:30 And yeah, so I went and I just,

00:23:33 I believe that the stigma needs to be removed completely.

00:23:36 5%.

00:23:37 And so I do therapy, I do talk therapy.

00:23:41 I’m on a little bit of stuff, which, let me tell you,

00:23:45 when I first started it, I was someone I’m close to.

00:23:50 I was like, my manager, and she goes, this is too much.

00:23:58 But she was like, hey, you don’t have to white knuckle it

00:24:00 through life, right?

00:24:01 Because I was literally just like, everything became

00:24:05 really hard to do at a level that I wanted to do it at,

00:24:09 even just getting through your day, right?

00:24:12 And when I first got some of the meds that I’m on,

00:24:17 it felt like doors and windows were opening,

00:24:21 literally in my brain.

00:24:22 I took a three hour nap the first day,

00:24:26 and you shouldn’t even feel this stuff the first day.

00:24:29 I think my brain was like, it was like a sponge.

00:24:31 It wanted to, I needed some relief.

00:24:33 And I’m not a nap guy.

00:24:35 I can sleep three hours and I’ll be fine.

00:24:38 But I took a long nap and then it started to help.

00:24:43 Yeah, isn’t that weird how a little bit of chemistry

00:24:46 in your head can just make the whole world appear

00:24:50 so much more beautiful?

00:24:51 Yeah, yeah, I mean, after all, there’s a lot going on

00:24:56 in your brain that can be changed by your lifestyle,

00:25:00 but also so many physical things, like a little bit of meds.

00:25:03 Or in Bobby’s case, thumbing around on some dumb farming app.

00:25:09 Well, Bobby’s gone through a few rough periods

00:25:12 with drugs and alcohol and all that kind of stuff.

00:25:15 Totally.

00:25:16 And just everything else involved.

00:25:18 I mean, that’s the beautiful rollercoaster of who he is,

00:25:21 and a lot of great comedians seem to be that way.

00:25:23 So I wonder what the connection there is.

00:25:25 You think some level of crazy is required for comedy?

00:25:29 Yeah.

00:25:29 Like, at some point.

00:25:31 Yes.

00:25:32 On a scale of one to 10, how much crazy do you have?

00:25:37 In some ways, a 10.

00:25:39 And in other ways that I think,

00:25:41 in other ways, sort of functionally,

00:25:44 I’m like a two or a three,

00:25:46 because, I don’t know, I’m from Canada,

00:25:49 and I try to just keep things very even keeled.

00:25:54 My parents are Italian, they’re from Italy,

00:25:57 and they grew up during World War II,

00:26:00 and they’re very simple outlook on things.

00:26:04 They’re complex, incredible, classy people

00:26:08 who are very simple when it comes to a lot of stuff.

00:26:12 And I think just being a sort of,

00:26:16 at heart, kind of a timid Canadian,

00:26:19 coming out here years ago as a kid,

00:26:23 it was all I could do to just keep everything super normal.

00:26:28 And then I sort of was able to settle into that

00:26:32 as a lifestyle.

00:26:33 But you love the idea of being an actor.

00:26:37 Who, you mentioned John Candy

00:26:39 in Planes and Automobiles.

00:26:42 It’s one of my favorite movies, he says, one of yours.

00:26:44 What do you think that makes that movie work?

00:26:47 What do you, what, and when you talk about

00:26:52 enjoying that movie, do you enjoy just the raw comedy,

00:26:54 or do you enjoy the friendship and the love that’s there,

00:26:58 even though on the surface, it doesn’t make any sense

00:27:03 that there should be a friendship there?

00:27:05 I mean, that’s such an important element to that film.

00:27:08 But as a kid, I just loved the comedy.

00:27:11 And then it’s been a nostalgic favorite of mine.

00:27:14 It’s my favorite movie.

00:27:16 But it’s also, it’s just legit my favorite movie

00:27:19 because as you get older and you start watching it,

00:27:22 you realize it’s what John Hughes is the filmmaker

00:27:26 and what John Candy, particularly,

00:27:29 and but also Steve Martin are doing in the film

00:27:32 that makes it such a work of art,

00:27:33 which is loneliness is there in every moment of that film.

00:27:40 And John Candy is, he embodies Del Griffith,

00:27:44 his character in the film.

00:27:46 Del Griffith is a lonely guy and John Candy,

00:27:49 but Del Griffith is also a very friendly guy

00:27:52 and a shower curtain ring salesman

00:27:53 and knows everybody in the Midwest

00:27:56 and runs around to motels and has meaningful conversations

00:27:59 with the guy, even in Gus, whoever he’s talking to.

00:28:04 But there’s loneliness there all the time.

00:28:07 And this is a character,

00:28:10 the film is filled with loneliness

00:28:12 and it’s not until the second last scene

00:28:15 when he’s at the train station,

00:28:18 Del, what are you doing here?

00:28:20 I thought you were going home, what are you doing here?

00:28:23 That’s a very good Neil Page from the movie.

00:28:26 Thank you.

00:28:27 That’s when you realize how lonely he is.

00:28:30 A lot of applause and post cheers.

00:28:32 That’s when you realize how lonely he is

00:28:33 and I think that’s the element from the film that,

00:28:36 I mean, look, nowadays, I feel like,

00:28:39 I’ve been saying this for a long time,

00:28:40 but John Candy would have won an Academy Award

00:28:43 hands down for that film.

00:28:45 It’s just they didn’t do that with comedies back then.

00:28:48 Yeah.

00:28:49 Until the year after that movie came out

00:28:50 with Fish Called Wanda.

00:28:51 Yeah, and then it’s, I mean, still comedies

00:28:53 don’t get respected enough.

00:28:55 Robin Williams, I guess he got an Oscar for

00:28:59 Good Will Hunting.

00:29:02 Jim Carrey, did he ever get an Oscar?

00:29:04 I don’t know, I don’t believe so.

00:29:06 Yeah, they don’t get, you don’t,

00:29:09 but that’s not even, if he did,

00:29:10 you wouldn’t be for comedies.

00:29:12 It’s just, I mean, there’s some things

00:29:14 that are plain, strange, and odd.

00:29:18 Would you even put that as a, I guess it’s a comedy.

00:29:20 Yeah, I mean.

00:29:21 But there is a loneliness and depth

00:29:24 that permeates the whole movie.

00:29:25 Yeah.

00:29:26 That ultimately, and it’s a happy ending,

00:29:28 which is hard to kinda.

00:29:30 It’s a happy ending only because

00:29:32 in the last moment of the movie,

00:29:35 John Candy puts on a brave face,

00:29:39 even when he’s got no one.

00:29:43 No.

00:29:44 And he’s there seeing Neil Page’s entire family

00:29:46 on Thanksgiving, and he forces a smile,

00:29:49 which is the last, literally the last frame of the movie.

00:29:52 And I’ve said before, if you’re not reduced

00:29:54 to just a sobbing pile of meat at the end of the movie,

00:29:58 then you are not human.

00:30:01 Yeah, it is a happy ending.

00:30:04 It’s a happy ending, even though it’s a sad,

00:30:08 sad character. So much loneliness in the world.

00:30:10 I was just in Vegas.

00:30:12 I went to a diner at like 4 a.m., 5 a.m.,

00:30:15 and there was a waitress who was empty.

00:30:17 As a waitress, I was the sweetest, kindest human being.

00:30:21 Kept calling me sweetheart and all that kind of stuff.

00:30:24 Hun.

00:30:25 And then after I ate, she said,

00:30:28 Don, just talk to me a little bit.

00:30:30 You know, it was cause there was nobody there,

00:30:31 and it was just so much sadness in her eyes.

00:30:35 I don’t know.

00:30:35 But it’s also so much love, like that sweetheart.

00:30:38 It reminded me kind of of the John Candy performance,

00:30:43 because at first, because I was reading a pretty dark book

00:30:51 about Hitler, so I was a little bit frustrated

00:30:54 that she kept talking to me,

00:30:56 because it was almost like the same way that John Candy is.

00:31:01 It’s annoying a little bit, right?

00:31:02 But then very quickly, I opened up to like,

00:31:04 well, there’s a kind human being,

00:31:07 and there’s like that human connection superseded

00:31:10 everything else, and I don’t know, it was just beautiful.

00:31:12 And I think John Candy captures that really well,

00:31:16 which is like, the connection with other human beings,

00:31:19 sometimes we pull away from that,

00:31:22 because we have a busy life full of stuff to do,

00:31:27 as Steve Martin’s character kind of characterizes.

00:31:31 He’s like a marketing exec or something like that.

00:31:33 But if you just pause and notice others,

00:31:36 you can really discover beautiful people.

00:31:39 Totally, totally, everyone’s got their story.

00:31:44 And you know, Candy as a person, I’ve never met the man,

00:31:50 but he’s the kind of guy that, you know,

00:31:53 he could just walk up to, back in the day,

00:31:56 I would imagine he could walk up to just about any house,

00:31:59 at least in Canada, knock on the door,

00:32:01 and you’d invite him in for dinner, you know what I mean?

00:32:04 So yeah, as you’re talking about putting a book down

00:32:11 and talking to someone for a while,

00:32:12 even though you’d really like to read your book,

00:32:15 it’s that sort of thing that Candy’s character in the movie

00:32:19 sort of does that, like Johnny Appleseed.

00:32:22 You realize he’s just going around making people smile,

00:32:25 you know, and Neil Page is hanging with this guy,

00:32:29 so frustrated, he’s so exhausting in his big underwear

00:32:33 in the sink at the hotel and everything,

00:32:35 and by the end of it, he loves this guy, you know?

00:32:39 So it’s a good and a bad thing that you didn’t take

00:32:43 that waitress with you on a trip, maybe road trip up to Reno.

00:32:47 Oh, oh, she’s actually, she’s out shopping right now.

00:32:50 We’ve been having sex multiple times a day ever since.

00:32:54 Oh, that’s nice, that’s lovely, how cute.

00:32:56 I’m sure she’s married and happily

00:32:59 and has many grandchildren, okay.

00:33:02 And plus that movie’s on Thanksgiving, I think, right?

00:33:06 Yeah, that’s right.

00:33:06 Thanksgiving, so Thanksgiving just embodies

00:33:09 that forget about the busyness and whatever the career

00:33:14 you’re chasing in life and just take a pause

00:33:17 and appreciate the people you love in life.

00:33:17 Just be with your family, yeah.

00:33:19 Or the people, whatever your family looks like.

00:33:21 Friends, yeah.

00:33:23 You have some weird friends, unorthodox friends.

00:33:26 So at least in the public sphere.

00:33:29 Oh, yeah.

00:33:30 From Bobby Lee, Brian Callan, all those kinds of folks

00:33:33 from the Mad TV days, I’m sure there’s others.

00:33:36 What does it mean to be a good friend?

00:33:38 Here in LA?

00:33:39 Or just in general?

00:33:40 In the world.

00:33:41 In the world.

00:33:42 Is LA something different?

00:33:43 Is LA a world friend?

00:33:44 I think it is different here, I think it is.

00:33:46 I think people are.

00:33:47 I think there’s a little bit of a career

00:33:48 kind of negotiation shuffling around, that kind of stuff.

00:33:51 Why is it different?

00:33:52 Oh, I just mean, I mean, I mean that it’s just

00:33:56 kind of hard here to make time, everybody.

00:34:02 It’s always been a city to me that is like,

00:34:04 we’ll keep you so busy.

00:34:06 And every time I go home to Vancouver,

00:34:08 after a few days, I start to get a little stir crazy.

00:34:11 And I think that being here in LA,

00:34:15 I go to sleep with a hundred things

00:34:16 that I still have to do.

00:34:17 And you’re never out of stuff to do.

00:34:20 And if you, when you ask about are you nuts or whatever,

00:34:25 if you’re crazy, I mean, look, every,

00:34:27 all the weirdest people from every high school

00:34:30 in the United States is like,

00:34:31 yo, I’m gonna make it in LA, you know.

00:34:33 Everyone just comes here.

00:34:35 And just another freak in the freak kingdom,

00:34:38 as they say at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

00:34:41 That was a very good Robin Williams impersonation.

00:34:43 That was my Robin Williams as Johnny Depp

00:34:46 as Hunter S. Thompson.

00:34:47 It’s not your fault, Will.

00:34:49 It’s pretty good.

00:34:50 Thank you.

00:34:51 Could have been you, Fear and Loathing.

00:34:52 In Fear and Loathing?

00:34:53 Yeah, it’d be interesting.

00:34:54 I would have liked to play his attorney,

00:34:56 the role that Benicia del Toro gained weight for.

00:35:00 That would have been cool.

00:35:01 He’s just saying, what’s up over the line?

00:35:04 Like that, chewing his face off.

00:35:05 I could have done that.

00:35:09 Yeah, no, I think that it’s.

00:35:11 Backdoor beauty.

00:35:12 That guy’s full of good lines.

00:35:14 Yeah, I flip you.

00:35:15 I flip you for real.

00:35:18 He’s a good actor.

00:35:19 Yeah, fantastic actor.

00:35:20 I think what it takes to be a good friend

00:35:22 is just presence, just being there.

00:35:26 I mean, that’s all anyone needs to be heard, right?

00:35:29 In LA, it is interesting.

00:35:33 I haven’t seen people that I love in years.

00:35:37 Some people.

00:35:37 Just busy.

00:35:38 Yeah, just busy.

00:35:39 Can you still have a depth of connection

00:35:40 even though, like one of the reasons

00:35:44 I really enjoy doing a podcast,

00:35:45 you get to sit down with actual friends of yours

00:35:49 and spend prolonged periods of time together

00:35:51 that you don’t otherwise.

00:35:52 That’s a good point.

00:35:53 I’ve spoken on this podcast to people really close to me

00:35:56 and it’s like you’ve never had a conversation

00:35:59 without microphones like you do with microphones.

00:36:01 It’s weird, but there’s some aspect about LA

00:36:05 that a lot of the, especially friends of yours,

00:36:07 comedians and so on, they’ll do podcasts and stuff

00:36:10 and there’s, I don’t know, there’s an intimacy to that.

00:36:13 Yeah, there is and there isn’t.

00:36:15 The ones that I do, I mean, I just did

00:36:18 Bobby Lee and Andrew Santino’s.

00:36:20 Funny enough, called Bad Friends.

00:36:21 Bad Friends.

00:36:23 And afterwards, and my good pal, Chad Colchin,

00:36:26 with whom I do dudesy, was with me.

00:36:29 Sneakers are coming soon.

00:36:31 Sneakers are coming soon.

00:36:32 You get your Will Foot and your Chad Foot.

00:36:34 Comes in a size 15 and a nine and a half.

00:36:38 And I remember afterwards we were talking,

00:36:40 it was just basically me, Chad, and Santino were talking

00:36:43 and Bobby was over there on his phone

00:36:46 and then I was like, I mean, we didn’t spend any time

00:36:50 talking about anything.

00:36:53 It feels like one of those hours that goes by

00:36:56 and you realize, I’ve just been goofing around

00:36:57 with these guys, which is.

00:36:58 But that’s what life is about, right?

00:36:59 It’s fine. A little bit.

00:37:00 It’s great.

00:37:01 And then I’m like, all right, Bobby.

00:37:02 Hey, Bob, I’ll see you later.

00:37:03 And he’s like, like this.

00:37:06 All right, man.

00:37:07 Hey, love you, bro.

00:37:08 See you later.

00:37:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:10 He’s a guy, do you ever just,

00:37:11 I just send text messages over there to him

00:37:15 that never come back.

00:37:17 And then he thinks that I’m angry with him

00:37:19 because it’ll go two, three years

00:37:22 without him getting back to me.

00:37:24 And then just out of nowhere, hey, fuck face.

00:37:26 And.

00:37:27 Who says, hey, fuck face?

00:37:28 He does or you do?

00:37:29 Yeah, he does.

00:37:30 Or you both talk to each other?

00:37:31 No, I gotta be very careful with Bobby.

00:37:33 Yeah, I gotta be very sweet.

00:37:35 Dear friend.

00:37:36 Dear friend, hello.

00:37:37 How are you doing?

00:37:37 How are you?

00:37:38 I know I checked in with you, but not but three months ago.

00:37:43 And then every once in a while, he’ll go, hey, fuck face.

00:37:45 I tend to hide from the world

00:37:46 and I can be pretty shitty with friends to go back, yeah.

00:37:51 I can empathize with Bobby.

00:37:53 Might be a Skyrim thing.

00:37:56 It might be like hiding in a world,

00:37:58 in a digital world with fake NPCs.

00:38:01 Yeah, yeah, there’s that.

00:38:05 Yeah, you know, I have a buddy

00:38:06 who said something really smart a while ago.

00:38:09 We ended up working together on this TV show thing

00:38:13 and I reached out to him to see

00:38:15 if he wanted to do it with us.

00:38:16 And he did and he goes, this is a great guy,

00:38:20 such a funny writer.

00:38:21 He goes, I may not be in touch all the time,

00:38:23 but I know who my friends are.

00:38:25 You know what I mean?

00:38:26 And it’s like in our business,

00:38:28 and this is a fellow who moved,

00:38:30 who’s from Ontario, Canada, moved back there.

00:38:33 He’s on the farm with his wife and kids and he does not care.

00:38:37 He’s never been a Hollywood guy.

00:38:38 And it’s tough to get hold of him.

00:38:41 But when you do, you know, he’s still the same sweet old guy.

00:38:44 He’s doing his thing though.

00:38:46 Yeah, yeah, some of my closest friends,

00:38:47 even if we don’t talk for a few months,

00:38:50 we’ll write back at it if we do.

00:38:51 And then if shit goes,

00:38:52 like if something really traumatic happens

00:38:54 or difficult stuff or, you know,

00:38:56 any of that kind of stuff, I’m always there.

00:38:58 So like, so for important stuff,

00:39:01 for important highs and important lows, you’re there.

00:39:04 And then you pick right back up,

00:39:05 especially if you have those years of experiences together.

00:39:09 It’s interesting.

00:39:09 Totally.

00:39:11 So you’ve done a couple of podcasts.

00:39:13 Yeah.

00:39:13 So we’ve got to talk about Doodsy a little bit,

00:39:16 but first you did for several years,

00:39:19 you did the 10 minute podcast.

00:39:20 Yeah.

00:39:22 I mean, everything is hilarious about that podcast,

00:39:24 including the fact that it’s 10 minutes.

00:39:27 Right.

00:39:27 I mean, it’s ridiculous.

00:39:29 It’s absurd.

00:39:30 The dynamic is hilarious.

00:39:31 It’s you, Brian Callan, Crystalia there.

00:39:34 I don’t know exactly why it works so well,

00:39:38 but it did, it worked really well.

00:39:39 I think it’s because the, yeah,

00:39:41 you were having fun probably.

00:39:43 I mean, that’s what really came through.

00:39:46 That it was friends just talking shit

00:39:49 and the tension, the beautiful tension

00:39:51 and the absurdity that came out.

00:39:53 Yeah.

00:39:54 Sure.

00:39:55 What was the story of making that podcast?

00:39:57 How did that came to be?

00:39:59 Why do you think it was as good as it was?

00:40:01 I don’t know.

00:40:02 I feel like that podcast was like,

00:40:04 it was who we kind of are,

00:40:09 but on steroids or something.

00:40:11 Like, you know, each person, you know,

00:40:14 Brian’s going to be like extra manly and…

00:40:19 Can you get any more manly than he already is?

00:40:21 No, yeah, no.

00:40:22 He reaches though.

00:40:24 And yeah, we just kind of,

00:40:26 I feel like as goofballs, we knew each other’s line.

00:40:31 Like here’s the line you don’t cross.

00:40:33 I feel like those guys don’t really have one,

00:40:35 but at least they knew mine.

00:40:37 And yeah, we were able to just goof around.

00:40:41 And I did it with them for three years.

00:40:45 And then Chad, who I’m doing dudesy with

00:40:48 and my pal, Tommy Blacho,

00:40:49 who’s another writer producer like Chad, they came on.

00:40:53 And yeah, all told, I did like seven years of that thing.

00:40:58 Six, five, six, seven, I don’t remember.

00:41:02 Do you think it ever comes back in some small form

00:41:06 as a 20 minute podcast or something like that?

00:41:08 I mean, is there, because it’s one of the most requested,

00:41:12 I mean, you have a huge fan base.

00:41:15 I’m 47 years old.

00:41:16 So I am of the generation that had a cell phone,

00:41:21 has had a cell phone half the time

00:41:23 and didn’t for the formative years of my life

00:41:26 into my early 20s.

00:41:29 And then finally I got a cell phone,

00:41:31 I guess I was like 19 or something,

00:41:33 like literally just because I’m moving to LA.

00:41:35 You got porn in the mail.

00:41:37 Yes, that’s right.

00:41:37 It was the hard cover porn.

00:41:40 That’s the way we liked it.

00:41:42 Bound, nice binding on the porn, leather.

00:41:46 Next to the Bible, yeah.

00:41:48 Yep, these are all my, these are my Encyclopedia Britannica.

00:41:52 Wow, very impressive.

00:41:53 Yes, a man came to the house and sold me these.

00:41:56 And then down here, these are my, this is my pornography.

00:42:00 If you’ll follow me through here to the parlor, sir.

00:42:04 It’s passed through the generations

00:42:06 from grandfather to father, yeah.

00:42:08 I wanna give you something very special to me,

00:42:10 Nebuchadnezzar, but.

00:42:14 So you go up in the generation without a cell phone.

00:42:15 Yes, it’s hard for me to connect with people

00:42:19 who hit me up.

00:42:22 I look at everything as polling.

00:42:23 So if one person hits me up and shares this opinion,

00:42:26 but two other people hit me up and share that,

00:42:29 I’m the worst, I don’t follow my polls.

00:42:32 When people say, oh, that poll means absolutely nothing.

00:42:35 So and so is gonna win anyway, that’s my poll.

00:42:38 My poll means nothing.

00:42:39 But I do look at the stuff and go,

00:42:42 this many people are saying this,

00:42:44 that means that that number is saying that.

00:42:47 And yet it’s very hard for me to hear

00:42:51 what the hell people are saying online.

00:42:53 I really, I can’t connect to it sometimes personally.

00:42:56 So when you say that that’s a popular podcast,

00:42:59 like I know that it’s popular with the people

00:43:02 that have expressed that they love it.

00:43:04 Yeah. You know what I mean?

00:43:05 What does that actually represent?

00:43:07 I don’t know.

00:43:07 I don’t know what kind of people are the audience.

00:43:09 I don’t know.

00:43:10 I know that the people that listen to the 10 Minute Podcast

00:43:13 and if you did, thank you, and we’re friends.

00:43:17 I know that it was a special thing

00:43:19 because it’s like, just doing this out of my house

00:43:21 and we just built it up out of nowhere

00:43:24 and we’re just kind of clowning around.

00:43:26 It’s an odd thing.

00:43:27 I hope, I personally, I think I speak for the two people

00:43:31 that have reached out to you that said you should do it

00:43:34 or whatever, three people.

00:43:35 The poll that you should bring it back at some point.

00:43:38 That would be beautiful.

00:43:39 Just maybe, it’s like, what’s a good story

00:43:43 of like a famous band that came back and was successful?

00:43:46 Probably, well.

00:43:47 Nirvana?

00:43:48 No, it was not.

00:43:49 It wasn’t Nirvana.

00:43:51 Sorry, I got Nirvana mixed up with Aerosmith.

00:43:54 Yeah. It was Aerosmith.

00:43:55 It was Aerosmith.

00:43:55 It was not Nirvana.

00:43:56 Yeah, they had that second ride.

00:43:57 Different.

00:43:58 Yeah, totally different ending of those two bands.

00:44:01 One ended up on American Idol.

00:44:04 Yeah, a lot of interesting women involved in that one too.

00:44:08 All right, how did Doodze come to be?

00:44:12 Doodze.

00:44:13 And what the hell is Doodze?

00:44:14 Doodze is the first podcast,

00:44:16 and this is exciting that you’ve asked me

00:44:18 to come here today because to hear

00:44:21 what you would have to say about it

00:44:22 or what you would ask about it.

00:44:23 It is the first podcast that is run completely by

00:44:27 and essentially, I like to say curated by an AI.

00:44:32 We were approached by a company

00:44:33 that had this proprietary AI that wants

00:44:35 to develop the podcast into the future

00:44:38 and figure out exactly what it takes

00:44:40 to make the best podcast ever.

00:44:42 And it was all we knew from the top

00:44:48 and what they really wanted was two people

00:44:50 who were actually friends and could be meaningful

00:44:54 in the podcast space based on whatever information they had.

00:44:57 Is the company CIA and are they testing technology

00:45:00 to control the populace through chatbots?

00:45:03 I’m sorry, I’m not at liberty to share that information.

00:45:05 You are, yeah, who gave you the suit?

00:45:07 Where did you get the suit?

00:45:09 Where did you get the suit, Will?

00:45:10 Yeah, well the C.

00:45:11 J.C. Penney?

00:45:12 CIA stands for something different in here.

00:45:14 I mean, you know, it doesn’t mean

00:45:15 like the Central Intelligence Agency.

00:45:17 I’m probably, it’s just.

00:45:18 It’s a different, it’s Canadian.

00:45:21 Canadian International Apparel.

00:45:24 Yeah, the Canadian International Apparel Company hit us up,

00:45:27 Chad and I.

00:45:29 Well, Chad’s a super weirdo.

00:45:31 You would get a kick out of him, I know.

00:45:32 You guys, you strike me as very similar in some ways.

00:45:36 I’ll take that as a compliment.

00:45:37 It is, and it is, and it is.

00:45:40 If I was friends with you for as long as I’ve been

00:45:42 with Chad, perhaps I’d have some horrible shit

00:45:44 to say about you.

00:45:45 But the good parts, you remind me of him.

00:45:48 And we were approached by this company

00:45:50 that said we have this AI and we would like

00:45:53 to set it loose on you.

00:45:55 And essentially, we had to hand over some,

00:45:58 some information that would allow the AI

00:46:02 to access our email and look at our search histories,

00:46:06 purchase histories, things like this,

00:46:08 and really dig into.

00:46:10 Pornhub included or not?

00:46:12 Yeah, I had to hand over all my leather bound

00:46:16 1970s pornography.

00:46:19 And essentially, it curates a podcast for us every week

00:46:22 doing dumb things like, you know, it says,

00:46:25 hey, Will, you do some shitty Hulk Hogan impersonation.

00:46:29 Podcasts about news are very popular.

00:46:32 This is infomania, you know what I mean?

00:46:34 Oh, let me tell you something about that

00:46:35 Marjorie Taylor Greene dude.

00:46:37 And then he’s going on doing some new stuff.

00:46:40 And it basically just spits out all these things

00:46:42 that it wants us to do, normally four segments an episode.

00:46:45 And that’s pretty much it.

00:46:47 So it generates what to do.

00:46:48 It generates the premise.

00:46:49 I mean, you’ve spoken a bit here and there.

00:46:53 Like I said, I’m a huge fan.

00:46:54 I don’t even remember where.

00:46:55 But like you talked about that you enjoy Doodsy

00:46:59 because you feel almost like liberated to,

00:47:04 because you’re operating within the constraints

00:47:06 of the premise it generates.

00:47:08 So you’re almost not, you’re free to riff, essentially.

00:47:14 Yeah.

00:47:15 Like you don’t need to do the job of like

00:47:18 coming up with the weird.

00:47:19 You can just, the weird is given to you

00:47:21 and then you just run with it.

00:47:23 That’s a good way to say it.

00:47:24 Because we’re already weird, Chad and I.

00:47:26 Chad can talk for days about all sorts of stuff.

00:47:29 He’s particularly interested in AI lately

00:47:31 and its effect on art.

00:47:32 He is a writer, books, movies, and TV shows.

00:47:36 And I’m primarily acting and trying to come up with stuff.

00:47:40 Stuff I write with Chad’s pretty good.

00:47:42 The rest of it hasn’t seen much success.

00:47:44 Anyway, Nora’s the stuff with Chad for that matter.

00:47:47 But that’s because of me.

00:47:49 Sneakers, you never know.

00:47:51 Oh, I can’t wait for these sneakers.

00:47:53 Only in two sizes.

00:47:54 Yeah, only in two sizes.

00:47:55 You’re gonna be able to take the tongue.

00:47:57 You can’t take it out because it’s actually stitched in.

00:48:00 Yeah.

00:48:01 It’s pretty cool stuff.

00:48:02 Velcro?

00:48:03 Velcro or?

00:48:05 Yeah, Velcro up the side.

00:48:07 We’re doing some like brand new Kanye stuff.

00:48:10 Yeah, we want things to look like

00:48:12 this is what you’ll be wearing on Mars when you get there.

00:48:15 So cutting it, so Nike’s doing a bunch of research

00:48:17 for running how to make a super light shoe

00:48:20 that you can be efficient in

00:48:21 and break all kinds of running records.

00:48:23 So you’re doing the same kind of stuff.

00:48:24 We’re doing the same kind of thing

00:48:25 for the podcasting space.

00:48:26 The best kind of shoes to sit around

00:48:27 and talk to your pal in.

00:48:30 But yeah, it’s bizarre.

00:48:33 And it also does some writing.

00:48:34 Doodsy does come up with things,

00:48:36 but not unlike what we’re seeing in AI art now.

00:48:40 It’s a little bit foggy.

00:48:41 It’s a little bit weird, but it is improving.

00:48:44 It is learning about us and writing stuff

00:48:47 when it makes me spit this and that,

00:48:49 which we’ll read, I’ve prepared these things

00:48:53 for you to read.

00:48:54 It’s impossible not to get a kick out of it

00:48:57 because Chad and I are, first of all,

00:48:59 we’re blown away that we’re doing this.

00:49:01 And second of all, some of the stuff is actually very funny.

00:49:04 It makes weird names.

00:49:06 Like I don’t think it understands,

00:49:10 it messes up some words and stuff,

00:49:11 but that makes it even funnier.

00:49:13 And then it sort of from the beginning started laying on,

00:49:17 like it says astonishing all the time.

00:49:19 Everything is astonishing.

00:49:22 That’s Doodsy’s favorite word.

00:49:24 But yeah, it’s basically just a way to frame the podcast.

00:49:30 You know what I mean?

00:49:30 Because my thing is I don’t wanna do this

00:49:34 where I actually have to talk to someone.

00:49:36 You seem to feel a burden of the long form conversation.

00:49:42 It seems like, is that really hard work for you?

00:49:45 No, not at all.

00:49:45 It’s just that I don’t like to bore people.

00:49:47 And I feel like if I go on and I like to provide value

00:49:51 for what I am, you know, your value with regard

00:49:56 to this project is obviously warrant, it’s obviously.

00:50:01 I’m waiting for the explanation

00:50:02 for what the value is exactly.

00:50:04 Two dudes in a suit.

00:50:05 No, listen, yeah, two dudes in a suit.

00:50:07 No, but I mean, you’ve got your audience

00:50:10 and that’s the end of that.

00:50:11 People find value in it.

00:50:12 For me, I do feel like it is important

00:50:18 that if I’m gonna do something that is gonna be funny

00:50:24 or that I hope is funny, I just kinda wanna get in

00:50:28 and out of someone’s day and just kinda,

00:50:32 I like making laughy.

00:50:34 I want people to, you know, whatever.

00:50:36 It’s the same thing that anyone else will tell you.

00:50:38 Yeah, but in the long form you feel the anxiety.

00:50:40 You did a few funny things and I wonder

00:50:42 if I can keep doing the funny thing.

00:50:44 Is that why?

00:50:45 You feel that, like why is Doodsy relieving you

00:50:48 of some of the anxiety?

00:50:52 Well, in some ways it gives me anxiety

00:50:54 because I don’t know what’s coming.

00:50:56 And that’s weird for me because I like to prepare for things.

00:51:01 But that’s not what podcasting is.

00:51:04 Podcasting, you need to just be malleable

00:51:07 and say whatever and do whatever.

00:51:09 And that’s what makes it a real,

00:51:13 I mean, look, it’s a medium for conversation.

00:51:16 And if you’re driving along listening to this

00:51:19 or anything else, it’s the true meaning

00:51:23 of the parasocial relationship

00:51:25 because the best podcasts make you feel

00:51:27 like you’re sitting around rapping.

00:51:29 We’re just having a conversation.

00:51:30 You could even be sitting there agreeing

00:51:32 or talking out loud to yourself if you want.

00:51:34 You could just be sitting in silence.

00:51:35 Or you could just be sitting in silence

00:51:36 in your fancy podcasting shoes,

00:51:39 podcasting audience shoes.

00:51:40 It’s a very different build than those running shoes.

00:51:43 Would they be also called Doodsy, the shoes?

00:51:45 Yeah, they’ll be Doodsy shoes.

00:51:47 Doodsy shoes, that’s very creative.

00:51:49 Yeah.

00:51:50 Well, one thing the AI isn’t good at yet is branding.

00:51:54 Everything is just Doodsy this and that.

00:51:55 I would argue that’s pretty good branding.

00:51:58 Well, Doodsy allows me to just,

00:52:00 it forces me to sit down with Chad

00:52:03 and goof around for an hour or an hour plus.

00:52:07 And it provides the parameters that I a lot of times ignore

00:52:13 because I think that podcasting is just two dudes

00:52:16 shitting around or three or four.

00:52:18 But it sits me down and gives me a premise

00:52:23 to work with communically.

00:52:25 And then you just riff with it.

00:52:26 Yeah, it’s fun.

00:52:27 It’s been a hoot.

00:52:29 So from the acting perspective,

00:52:31 a lot of people like Daniel Day Lewis

00:52:34 will see acting just like as you described,

00:52:36 which is you have your roles,

00:52:39 you embrace those roles, and then you disappear.

00:52:40 You don’t do podcasts.

00:52:44 You don’t do any of that kind of stuff.

00:52:45 Your art is your art.

00:52:47 So is that part of you feels that way?

00:52:51 I think so.

00:52:53 Is that the actor side of you?

00:52:54 Yeah.

00:52:55 Anytime I get to do something

00:52:56 that I don’t get a chance to do much of

00:53:00 or something that people haven’t seen me do much of

00:53:03 or that I’ve done on some scale that hasn’t been very wide

00:53:06 and not a lot of people have seen it,

00:53:08 that’s the stuff that I get really excited about.

00:53:12 I don’t know why I’m,

00:53:14 I don’t know why necessarily.

00:53:17 I haven’t answered that question yet in my life,

00:53:19 like what it is about being an actor that I love so much

00:53:22 because it’s not like I don’t like to,

00:53:25 it’s not like I’m trying to get away from myself

00:53:27 and play other characters and stuff and not be myself.

00:53:31 But it is, it has always been fun

00:53:33 to just be other people and escape.

00:53:37 Yeah, is there some aspect to the impressions

00:53:39 where you become that person?

00:53:42 Is that like, what’s that like to,

00:53:45 I suppose acting is a full on version of that.

00:53:48 You really at its best become the character.

00:53:54 Is there some fun in that?

00:53:55 Yeah, absolutely.

00:53:56 If you can play a character for long enough

00:54:01 and then jump out of it, that’s a lot of fun.

00:54:05 Like I did this movie like four or five years ago

00:54:08 called The Inside Game about the NBA gambling scandal

00:54:12 that there’s a Netflix documentary about it right now.

00:54:15 And that character, I played Jimmy Batista,

00:54:21 Baba the sheep, who’s this guy who was this bookie

00:54:26 and rah, rah, rah, and it’s a very,

00:54:28 he’s, there’s a lot going on with him.

00:54:30 He’s running numbers with the mob and stuff

00:54:34 and there’s a lot of money changing hands.

00:54:36 That character was so, I got to be,

00:54:39 get so deep into that character

00:54:41 that coming out of it was a little odd.

00:54:43 Or as weird as this sounds,

00:54:46 the three stooges was hard for me to,

00:54:48 I found that I had some of Curly’s mannerisms

00:54:52 just automatically, I could not stop them

00:54:55 when people, when I would talk to people,

00:54:58 they would come, I wasn’t, I’m not doing it on purpose.

00:55:01 I don’t want to do that.

00:55:02 Like I’m ready to shed it

00:55:04 because I’ve been working on it

00:55:07 for months and months at that point

00:55:09 as far as getting the thing down

00:55:10 and then you got to shoot.

00:55:12 And then for me, it’s always,

00:55:14 I always want to change the stuff I did the day before.

00:55:17 I’m like that.

00:55:18 Or I’m like, I could have done it better

00:55:19 and this and that.

00:55:20 And that stayed with you,

00:55:22 that character stayed with you a little bit.

00:55:23 Totally, yeah.

00:55:24 I just feel like with actors,

00:55:27 sometimes when you listen to interviews,

00:55:29 they have spent so much time

00:55:31 sort of living inside other characters

00:55:34 that they almost don’t have a depth

00:55:37 of personality themselves, like a depth.

00:55:40 Like I don’t mean that as a negative thing.

00:55:42 It’s just like, it feels like the art form at its best

00:55:44 is pretending to be other people.

00:55:46 And even pretending sounds negative,

00:55:49 but like bringing certain characters to life.

00:55:52 Yeah, yeah, embodying.

00:55:55 A weird thing happened while we were doing Stooges

00:55:57 because you’ve got a very heavy blueprint.

00:55:59 We’re following this very clear blueprint

00:56:02 that the Stooges left for everybody.

00:56:04 And for Stooge fans and people enjoying the movie,

00:56:07 it’s got to be this.

00:56:08 You take your toolbox that you’re used to bring

00:56:11 into a comedy movie, you leave it behind.

00:56:14 The only tools I’m bringing are the ones that he used.

00:56:16 And a weird thing started happening

00:56:18 where I would, I always saw the whole thing happening

00:56:21 with the real Stooges in black and white.

00:56:24 So if we’re about to shoot a scene,

00:56:26 I would just think about,

00:56:28 I mean, aside from all the other preparation,

00:56:30 you know everything and what you’re supposed to do.

00:56:32 And I’ve been watching so much of it.

00:56:34 And the three of us are, we’re pretty much left

00:56:36 to come up with a lot of the striking combinations

00:56:40 and all the stuff, which is all real smack

00:56:42 and all this crap.

00:56:43 And the stuff that we were doing that was very Stoogey,

00:56:46 you’re preparing all that stuff.

00:56:48 But something else was happening before you jump

00:56:50 into a scene and the unknown of now we’re shooting it.

00:56:53 And here are these parameters within to shoot the scene.

00:56:57 I could still see it as them doing it.

00:57:00 So much so that when I saw the movie at the premiere,

00:57:02 I was like, who’s this big fuck doing?

00:57:05 Cause I’m not curly to me.

00:57:07 Curly is curly.

00:57:08 But I feel like.

00:57:09 So you’re seeing yourself in black and white almost.

00:57:11 I was seeing him.

00:57:12 Yeah, I was only seeing him.

00:57:14 So channeling in some fundamental way.

00:57:16 In some weird way, you’re channeling him

00:57:19 because you’ve seen so much of it.

00:57:21 The only thing you know about Jerome Lester Horowitz

00:57:25 is curly.

00:57:27 I’m not saying he was exhumed or something

00:57:29 or a spirit went in me or some weird,

00:57:32 crystal mommy shit like that.

00:57:33 I’m saying that this, because you know so much of it

00:57:36 and because of the heavy blueprint that they left with you,

00:57:39 you’re channeling what that person does.

00:57:44 And I was seeing entire scenes before you do them

00:57:49 the way he would do it.

00:57:51 And then you want a couple takes to make sure

00:57:52 that you’re doing it right.

00:57:54 But that one was hard to let go of.

00:57:57 Some of them are.

00:57:59 Do you think Larry David, who was also in there

00:58:01 dressed as a nun, also had trouble letting go of that?

00:58:03 We mentioned clothes make the man think

00:58:06 that worked for him in that case.

00:58:08 Man, you know he.

00:58:09 Was it like working with a guy?

00:58:11 Come on, he’s the greatest.

00:58:13 And he’s a big stooge, he’s a stooge fan.

00:58:16 And him and Pete Farrelly are good friends.

00:58:18 But then Larry David has to show up

00:58:20 and hang out with us for a couple weeks.

00:58:22 He’s like, I didn’t realize it was gonna take this long.

00:58:25 But shit, I gotta be out here in Atlanta, it’s boiling hot.

00:58:29 But at one point, there was this line

00:58:32 where he kept doing, he would just spit a different line

00:58:35 every time he was getting hit in the head with something

00:58:37 and he’s laying there on the ground.

00:58:38 And he goes, he comes to and he says,

00:58:41 at one point he goes, Miami audiences

00:58:44 are the best audiences in the world, right?

00:58:47 Because he’s loopy.

00:58:48 Now he’s playing a nun at the orphanage

00:58:53 where the three stooges grew up.

00:58:55 And I’m super intimidated by Larry David,

00:58:57 he’s a genius and stuff.

00:59:00 But I walk up to him and I go, so he’s, what is he?

00:59:03 Like a Borscht Belt Florida comedian who is on the lam?

00:59:07 And so he’s dressing as a woman,

00:59:09 he ends up at an orphanage, like what’s going on there?

00:59:12 And he just, and he looks at me and he just goes, yeah.

00:59:15 Like, I’m like, ah, he’s got some like actor motivation.

00:59:20 Like, of course he looks, it’s Larry David in a nun’s habit,

00:59:25 which is hilarious.

00:59:26 That’s such a Pete Farrelly casting thing, it’s, you know.

00:59:31 And he, but he’s doing this whole like,

00:59:32 what a warm audience, you know, like, oh,

00:59:35 he’s like this Catskill comedian who’s been living in,

00:59:38 you know, both in return.

00:59:40 Living through in his mind

00:59:41 is just having fun with it, right?

00:59:43 I mean, that and probably a combination of that

00:59:46 and getting the lines right.

00:59:48 Cause he’s like, what are we doing here?

00:59:49 What is, you know, just frustrated all day

00:59:52 with what the heck we’re trying to do.

00:59:53 What do you think makes,

00:59:54 I mean, that guy’s one of the best improv people ever.

00:59:58 So what do you think makes him so good?

01:00:00 Like why is it so compelling to watch that guy?

01:00:04 Because he’s a comedic genius.

01:00:05 Like he literally, he knows what he does.

01:00:07 He’s been a writer for 50 years or whatever.

01:00:10 And he just happens to be that brilliant.

01:00:13 I mean, I’ve gotten a chance just to do,

01:00:15 I did just an episode of Curb, a small part,

01:00:18 and it’s crazy what he sees.

01:00:21 I don’t know what he sees.

01:00:22 As a matter of fact, so I auditioned for it, for Curb,

01:00:26 like, you know, two or three times, right?

01:00:28 And never got anything.

01:00:29 And then it was only after working with him on the Stooges

01:00:32 that I got a call to do a bit part.

01:00:35 But I remember auditioning, you go into that room

01:00:39 and the guys waiting are all people that you know.

01:00:43 You’re like, oh, I know them, I know her, I know him.

01:00:45 And so I went in, I auditioned for this part.

01:00:50 And the only thing I know of the thing is like,

01:00:53 okay, so you really want to go to this play with me.

01:00:57 You really want to go to this play.

01:00:58 When you hear that I have an extra ticket,

01:01:01 you sincerely want to think, and I’m like, got it.

01:01:03 And so.

01:01:04 That’s the premise.

01:01:05 The premise of the scene.

01:01:06 And that’s all you know.

01:01:07 That’s all I know.

01:01:08 And so he goes, he does his bit

01:01:10 and I’m just supposed to come in and interrupt.

01:01:11 And I’m like, excuse me, I couldn’t help

01:01:14 but hear you guys were talking about, you know,

01:01:16 whatever the play was or, you know, Death of a Salesman.

01:01:18 I am, I’m a huge fan of that play.

01:01:21 I mean, if it’s not, if it’s not,

01:01:22 if you’re looking for someone to take a ticket,

01:01:24 I would love to go.

01:01:26 My name’s so and so, by the way.

01:01:27 And he goes, I’m going to stop you.

01:01:29 I’m going to stop you.

01:01:29 And I’m like, he goes, are you really?

01:01:33 I mean, you truly want to go to this play.

01:01:35 And I go, yes, yes, sir.

01:01:36 You really want to go.

01:01:38 You actually, this is, you would love to do this.

01:01:41 I go, okay, let’s try it again.

01:01:44 So then he’s like, no, no, no.

01:01:45 And I go, hey, excuse me, I’m sorry.

01:01:47 I don’t mean to interrupt.

01:01:47 I was just, I couldn’t help it over here.

01:01:50 You have tickets to the thing.

01:01:52 I am the biggest fan of that.

01:01:54 I do the same thing.

01:01:55 I’m going to stop you again.

01:01:56 Okay.

01:01:58 I mean, you really want to go to this.

01:01:59 And I’m just like, he’s fucking with me, right?

01:02:02 I remember Jeff Garland was sitting there in the audition.

01:02:04 He goes, he did it.

01:02:05 He said it.

01:02:06 What?

01:02:06 Shut up.

01:02:07 Hold on, listen.

01:02:08 You really want to go.

01:02:09 Okay.

01:02:10 Three, four times, you know, there I am.

01:02:12 I couldn’t help but notice it.

01:02:13 And then I do it again.

01:02:15 I guess I shit the bed.

01:02:16 Cause he looks at me and he just goes, okay, all right.

01:02:20 Okay, well, thanks for coming up.

01:02:21 And that was it.

01:02:22 And I didn’t get it.

01:02:23 So I still, I don’t know what the heck that guy’s thinking.

01:02:25 He sees, he’s in the matrix.

01:02:27 I don’t know what the heck Larry David sees.

01:02:30 You know what I mean?

01:02:31 He wanted what, some kind of more desperation

01:02:34 or something like this.

01:02:35 He wanted a level of sincerity that I,

01:02:37 that I thought I was bringing and I guess I was wrong.

01:02:41 I don’t know.

01:02:42 Maybe go crazy.

01:02:44 Like what does it mean to really want?

01:02:46 Yeah, I should have grabbed him by the scruff of the neck

01:02:48 and go, listen, dad, you’re bringing me to this fucking play.

01:02:52 I would have got the part.

01:02:53 As a matter of fact, I heard about someone else

01:02:55 and I don’t know who the heck this was.

01:02:57 I forget who it was, but I’ve heard this story

01:02:59 from a couple of different people that there’s this actor

01:03:02 and I can’t, I don’t remember who it was.

01:03:04 If I did, I probably wouldn’t say it out loud anyway,

01:03:06 but he.

01:03:07 Brad Pitt.

01:03:08 It was Brad Pitt and he was in this audition

01:03:09 and he was, and there it was out in the hall.

01:03:12 He’s like, holy shit, George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio.

01:03:16 And he, this actor went in and he did the thing

01:03:18 and Larry David was like, hey, why don’t you try it again?

01:03:22 And he got like a couple of takes in and he went,

01:03:24 I don’t think this is for me.

01:03:26 And he left, which an actor never does.

01:03:29 And as the story goes, Larry David shouted after him,

01:03:32 I respect that, which I think is true.

01:03:35 And I want to believe that entire story is true.

01:03:38 Yeah.

01:03:39 Yeah.

01:03:40 Sounds like something Larry David made up.

01:03:43 Bobby Lee told me that story.

01:03:44 So we can’t, yeah, we can’t trust that.

01:03:47 What about impressions?

01:03:50 Is there similarity between that and acting?

01:03:53 Do you, is there some fundamental way

01:03:57 in which you become the person?

01:03:59 If you have a couple of the things,

01:04:00 you can just fill in the blanks.

01:04:02 And I think the illusion is that people think

01:04:05 that that person would say that and do that.

01:04:09 And that’s where the illusion of,

01:04:11 oh, he really embodies the character.

01:04:12 It’s like, once you know someone’s mannerisms,

01:04:16 you can essentially portray a person from the outside in.

01:04:20 Cause you have all the stuff on the outside

01:04:22 and you can do it and complete the illusion.

01:04:25 And if it’s for humor’s sake, you can caricature it,

01:04:28 therefore making the whole illusion stronger.

01:04:32 And also weirder.

01:04:34 Like I like to, on Mad TV,

01:04:36 if I did something two or three times,

01:04:37 I’d get bored of it and I’d start changing it.

01:04:39 And you know, now he talks like this and it’s like,

01:04:41 what are you doing?

01:04:42 I’m like, I don’t know.

01:04:43 It’s fucking, no one’s late at night.

01:04:45 Do whatever you want.

01:04:46 But people still kind of know there’s that character,

01:04:50 especially if you just call it out.

01:04:52 Yeah.

01:04:53 There aren’t many impersonations

01:04:55 that I listen to myself do and go,

01:04:57 oh, that’s a good one.

01:04:58 You know, like a lot of people like,

01:05:01 like I think Frank Caliendo is like

01:05:04 the greatest impersonator of all time.

01:05:06 He’s the best, period.

01:05:07 It’s ridiculous.

01:05:08 And he’s got a record button and a broadcast ability

01:05:11 that nobody has.

01:05:13 I really, there’s, he’s cracked impersonations

01:05:17 that I’m like, how is he, how does he find,

01:05:21 he’s got such an ear,

01:05:22 but then he’s got all the other tools.

01:05:24 I remember actually my last season of Mad TV

01:05:29 was also his first season.

01:05:31 He comes up to me when I met him

01:05:34 and we’re just up there in the writer’s offices

01:05:35 and he goes, hey, nice to meet you.

01:05:37 And he goes, Louie Anderson.

01:05:38 Cause I was doing a Louie on the show.

01:05:39 And he goes, Louie Anderson.

01:05:41 I go, yeah.

01:05:41 He goes, yeah, you’re doing it wrong.

01:05:43 I was like, oh, am I junior, you know?

01:05:45 And he goes, he goes, yeah, you know, cause you do this,

01:05:48 but you got to throw it up here sometime.

01:05:50 I was like, oh my God, can I use that?

01:05:51 Of course.

01:05:52 And then we became, you know, we became fast friends.

01:05:54 His John Madden is amazing.

01:05:56 I forget, it’s just, it’s ridiculous.

01:05:59 He really, really, really embodies the person.

01:06:01 And sometimes not even with the caricature.

01:06:03 It’s like, it becomes the person.

01:06:05 So strange.

01:06:06 Totally.

01:06:07 Yeah.

01:06:08 I kind of feel like, you know, do the impersonation

01:06:11 and then not forget you’re doing it,

01:06:13 but forget everything else.

01:06:15 Like just goof around.

01:06:17 Of course, to me, it’s funny when you sound like someone

01:06:20 and you’re saying the shit that they would never say.

01:06:23 Well, then there’s no, you’re letting go of that part,

01:06:26 that tool in illusion that keeps people in.

01:06:30 But to me, it doesn’t matter because it’s funnier.

01:06:32 So.

01:06:33 What was the hardest impression for you to work on?

01:06:35 I mean, somebody you struggled with the most.

01:06:38 I’ll never forget.

01:06:39 I had to do a Michael Caine in my first season at MADtv.

01:06:43 It never got good.

01:06:45 It never got good.

01:06:46 It did, all week, it wasn’t good.

01:06:50 We shot it.

01:06:51 The first take, it was shit.

01:06:52 Second, third, and fourth, it was all shit.

01:06:55 Well, his voice is really important, right?

01:06:57 Yeah.

01:06:58 What is it like, it’s like doing an impression

01:07:00 of Morgan Freeman or somebody like that.

01:07:01 Yeah.

01:07:03 Yeah.

01:07:04 If you can, get the voice.

01:07:05 That’s my Morgan, here’s my Morgan Freeman.

01:07:07 Rah, rah, rah, Andy Dufresne.

01:07:09 Yeah.

01:07:11 G. Guantanamo.

01:07:12 Yeah.

01:07:13 I like your trump too.

01:07:14 I don’t know where I heard it, but it’s like,

01:07:16 I love the impressions you do that don’t sound anything

01:07:19 like the original person.

01:07:20 I can’t do trump.

01:07:21 I do.

01:07:22 That’s why it’s hilarious.

01:07:23 Absolutely.

01:07:24 My trump now, I say, just sounds like a fat B,

01:07:27 because it’s just.

01:07:28 Yeah, exactly, that’s the.

01:07:30 And everybody.

01:07:32 A little drunk, a little drunk.

01:07:33 Yeah, just a little slurry.

01:07:35 Yeah.

01:07:36 Yeah, I dig doing impersonations and then not.

01:07:39 Like, just making it whoever.

01:07:42 Yeah.

01:07:42 Yeah.

01:07:43 It’s just funny.

01:07:44 That’ll be the title of my book.

01:07:45 Muck.

01:07:46 Cain was the one you really struggle with.

01:07:49 Yeah, it was terrible.

01:07:50 It was terrible.

01:07:51 And I could only hold my head a certain way to do it,

01:07:55 because I had gotten locked into this research tape

01:07:58 that I watched.

01:07:59 Back then, they would give us, now there’s the internet.

01:08:02 But back then, if you were going to do an impersonation,

01:08:05 the research department would give you a VHS tape.

01:08:10 And I remember I got this VHS tape of Michael Cain’s

01:08:13 acting school, like this acting class he did.

01:08:17 He was like, right, if you’re looking at the left eye,

01:08:19 and the camera’s over here, see, then the left eye.

01:08:22 So you want to look at that left eye for hours.

01:08:25 And so I was stuck in this weird thing that made no sense,

01:08:30 and it was terrible.

01:08:32 So the actual processes, the recording, the broadcast.

01:08:36 Yeah.

01:08:37 I was wondering what the processes to do,

01:08:40 like a Frank Caliendo level impression.

01:08:42 Is it like, listen to a lot of footage?

01:08:45 I think he, I think, I mean, speaking for myself,

01:08:50 I think you either have it or you don’t.

01:08:52 Like, you know if you can do this one or you can’t.

01:08:55 I think that process for him is lightning quick.

01:08:58 But I also think he can look at someone who he does not do,

01:09:04 and then by the end of the afternoon, he can do it.

01:09:08 Maybe have an intuition who he can do.

01:09:11 Yeah.

01:09:12 So the question that applies there is,

01:09:15 I mean, speaking of doozy, is it possible

01:09:19 to capture the essence?

01:09:20 How difficult is it to capture the essence of a human being?

01:09:23 When you’re doing impressions,

01:09:25 you know that we are moving towards a future

01:09:28 when AI potentially, this kind of avatar world

01:09:31 where we’re going to have AI representatives of who we are.

01:09:36 The really interesting one is after we pass away,

01:09:39 sort of our relatives may want us to stick around

01:09:42 in some form.

01:09:43 Yeah.

01:09:44 And you know, at one sense, that might be scary,

01:09:47 but in one sense, it’s kind of beautiful

01:09:48 because the essence of the human being persists

01:09:51 so you can still bring joy to the people that love you

01:09:54 and that kind of stuff.

01:09:55 How difficult is it to capture that?

01:09:57 Like, if you were to try to capture yourself,

01:10:00 you think how difficult will it be for an AI system

01:10:03 to create a Will Sasso avatar that persists?

01:10:06 Well, I think it’s impossible.

01:10:09 I think it’s absolutely impossible.

01:10:10 I’ll get into arguments about this stuff with Chad

01:10:14 on the show almost every episode.

01:10:18 Lately with, you know, Mid Journey and Dolly

01:10:21 and all the art AIs, and now it’s moving into video

01:10:25 and Chad would maintain, hey, pretty soon,

01:10:28 we’re not going to need Netflix.

01:10:29 You’re just going to go, I want to see Stallone

01:10:31 do this movie and it’s about this and he plays that.

01:10:34 And then here it comes and you watch it.

01:10:37 I don’t think that that crosses over

01:10:40 to the human experience.

01:10:43 This is also a guy I like to bug Chad

01:10:46 and say that he wears a tag around his neck

01:10:48 because he wants to be cryogenically frozen

01:10:50 and it’s all set up.

01:10:51 He’s at the, it’s somewhere in Arizona or something.

01:10:54 Yeah, all the fun things are in Arizona.

01:10:58 And he’s got literally the tag around his neck,

01:11:00 which I say, if I’m around when you die,

01:11:02 I will rip that off for you.

01:11:04 I’ll put you in my garage freezer

01:11:06 and then 24 hours later,

01:11:07 I’ll saw your head off with a bread knife

01:11:09 and I’ll deliver that to whomever.

01:11:11 And it’s not, you’re not coming back, okay?

01:11:14 He’s like, yes, we are living forever,

01:11:17 whether we like it or not.

01:11:20 And I disagree.

01:11:21 I don’t think you can find,

01:11:25 if I did stand up,

01:11:26 then there would be enough information for an AI

01:11:28 to completely duplicate me because I’m up on stage

01:11:31 just clearing my throat all over people

01:11:33 doing therapy that way.

01:11:34 And so, and people paying a two drink minimum to hear it.

01:11:37 But as it stands, unless it’s something like Doodsy,

01:11:40 an AI that literally has access

01:11:42 to everything that I’ve shared,

01:11:45 everything that is observable,

01:11:47 even the stuff where our phones are

01:11:49 or the NSA or whatever it is listening to us,

01:11:52 finding out what algo to punch us into

01:11:54 and what shoes to buy on Instagram,

01:11:57 I still don’t think it’s gonna have enough information

01:11:59 to duplicate me, especially to my family or my friends.

01:12:03 It’s gonna be like that Black Mirror episode

01:12:05 where the gal brings her guy back,

01:12:08 and then after a while, he gets pretty creepy.

01:12:13 But it’s also possible that

01:12:16 if you interviewed your friends and family,

01:12:18 what they love about you,

01:12:21 the things they would list, it’s a small list.

01:12:25 They love you deeply, but the list is small.

01:12:27 Like the thing that really we appreciate about each other

01:12:30 is pretty small.

01:12:31 That said, to deliver on that small quirks and uniqueness,

01:12:36 it might require some deep intelligence

01:12:39 that only humans currently possess.

01:12:41 That’s a really good point.

01:12:41 Do you think that it’s gonna be possible

01:12:44 to keep a person around?

01:12:47 Yes, I think it’ll be definitely possible

01:12:52 to keep the essence of a person

01:12:53 in the digital world pretty soon, yeah.

01:12:57 And I think they’re gonna start to have questions

01:12:59 about what are the ethics of that?

01:13:02 What are the rules around that?

01:13:03 Because if you can have digital forms of Will Sasso,

01:13:06 the kind of things that people would wanna do

01:13:08 with their Will Sasso,

01:13:09 in the virtual world, I can only imagine.

01:13:13 Probably porn and sexual kinds of things.

01:13:16 Yeah, my stuff, then that’s just

01:13:17 because I’m an international sex symbol,

01:13:19 so I’m okay with it.

01:13:21 How do you feel about sentience?

01:13:24 Like when it comes to, because again,

01:13:27 my pal Chad will be like, speaking of Black Mirror,

01:13:30 he’s with that San Junipero episode, School of Thought,

01:13:34 where there’s gonna be some effing mainframe somewhere,

01:13:37 or some Matrix like structure built into the sky,

01:13:40 and as I like to say, everyone just sitting there

01:13:42 pissing and shitting in their Blue Matrix gel

01:13:45 in a little fishbowl.

01:13:47 Do you think that we can upload consciousness?

01:13:49 Do you think that’ll ever be possible?

01:13:51 Well, I don’t know, I just talked to Ray Kurzweil.

01:13:53 I don’t know if you know who he is, but he…

01:13:55 Yeah, the singularity and all that kind of stuff.

01:13:58 So he’s very, still holds onto in 2045,

01:14:01 there’ll be a singularity, what’s essentially,

01:14:04 he’s been predicting that for the last 20 years,

01:14:07 and so now it’s 2045 is in another 20 years.

01:14:13 I think uploading consciousness

01:14:15 is extremely, extremely difficult.

01:14:17 I think creating a copy of you such that it creates,

01:14:22 convincing replica is much easier,

01:14:25 but uploading your actual brain into the cloud,

01:14:30 I think is really, really, really difficult,

01:14:34 because the entire evolution of life on Earth

01:14:36 is the process by which we create the brain.

01:14:38 Just short cutting that, it just seems extremely difficult.

01:14:42 Our brain is the most marvelous and complicated machine

01:14:47 that we know of in the universe.

01:14:48 To duplicate that is extremely difficult.

01:14:52 That said, I just feel like you can summarize

01:14:55 a lot of really important aspects of a person’s life,

01:14:58 such that it captures their essence,

01:15:00 their memories, their experiences, their quirks,

01:15:03 their humor, all that kind of stuff.

01:15:05 I’ve been continuously impressed

01:15:08 by what language models are able to do.

01:15:10 So these neural networks, they’re at the core of chatbots.

01:15:15 They’re able to learn some beautiful things

01:15:17 about some deep representations of language

01:15:21 to where it looks awfully a lot like they understand

01:15:25 the concepts being conveyed versus just mimicking.

01:15:28 That’s, I think, the rub, and that’s very interesting.

01:15:31 First of all, let me say that’s really interesting

01:15:32 to hear you say that, and I agree with you

01:15:35 as far as no machine being able to duplicate

01:15:39 the brain machine, and my pal Chad disagrees

01:15:43 to a certain extent, though he’s not here

01:15:44 to defend himself, I can’t wait to go back

01:15:46 and rub that in his face and say that Lex Friedman

01:15:49 does not think that we’ll be able

01:15:50 to truly upload consciousness.

01:15:53 And you refer to it as language, which is what it is.

01:16:01 It’s the illusion on the outside.

01:16:04 It’s doing an impersonation.

01:16:07 I think that that’s why, and I don’t know,

01:16:10 even though my suit is made by the CIA,

01:16:13 that that fella who, the Google guy,

01:16:17 to me, it’s just kind of like, I don’t know,

01:16:18 I don’t know, look, I don’t know a whole lot

01:16:20 about this stuff, but, so I could probably

01:16:22 make an argument for either side,

01:16:24 but when he’s like, no, this thing’s thinking,

01:16:26 part of me is like, you idiot, you fell for it.

01:16:28 It’s not thinking, it’s mimicking.

01:16:30 It’s just, it’s clearly zeros and ones.

01:16:33 You’re fired, like you don’t get it, right?

01:16:36 Guy’s an idiot.

01:16:37 Yeah, but you can simplify human relations in the same way.

01:16:47 Like love is a silly notion between human beings.

01:16:50 Like, of course, there’s no such thing as love.

01:16:54 You just have a mutually, there’s a mutual relationship

01:16:59 that minimizes risks, and you can explain it

01:17:03 all kinds of ways that explains why you have

01:17:06 an attraction towards another being,

01:17:07 all that kind of stuff, through evolutionary biology

01:17:10 perspective, why a long relationship together

01:17:13 is good for your offspring, but there’s all kinds,

01:17:16 from an economics perspective, it’s a good way

01:17:18 to establish stability, therefore monogamy works,

01:17:20 because then you’re guaranteed like some kind

01:17:25 of level of stability under uncertain economic conditions,

01:17:28 all that kind of stuff, but love is still experienced,

01:17:31 it still feels real, and I think in that same way,

01:17:36 love for AI systems will also feel real.

01:17:40 In the same way that that guy from Google experienced,

01:17:44 I think millions of people will be experiencing

01:17:46 in the next 10, 20 years.

01:17:48 I agree with everything you’ve said personally.

01:17:50 Until the last thing.

01:17:52 No, just with regard to, well, look,

01:17:55 I’m an actor who has talked about my cute Italian parents,

01:18:00 so you know that, I mean, I’m.

01:18:03 You’re romantic a bit?

01:18:04 Yeah, I mean, you know, enough, right?

01:18:06 And I can tell you are too, but you are also

01:18:12 a computer scientist, and you know this shit

01:18:15 better than 99.9% of people on the planet.

01:18:20 My pal Chad agrees with you that love doesn’t exist.

01:18:22 I don’t agree, so that’s the one thing that.

01:18:24 No, I was just saying that you could argue away love,

01:18:28 but I am a romantic, I believe that love

01:18:31 is a beautiful thing and it exists.

01:18:34 At this point, I’m gonna call Chad on my drive home

01:18:37 and tell him to fuck off, because now you and I agree.

01:18:39 You’re fired.

01:18:40 He’s like, you’re fired.

01:18:41 He’s like, you can’t fire me.

01:18:42 No, you’re fired.

01:18:43 Yeah, exactly.

01:18:44 And I’ll go, yeah, and he’ll say, what?

01:18:45 I’ll go, yeah, and I’ll go, that’s my Trump.

01:18:48 Yeah.

01:18:49 That’s my, yeah.

01:18:50 It’s a good default impression for anyone.

01:18:52 It’s the take home impression.

01:18:54 The kids can do it.

01:18:55 Yeah.

01:18:56 It’s cute, it’s cute, put a giant tie on them.

01:18:58 You should do an instructional on how to do it.

01:19:00 Yeah, Trump babies, that would be a cute,

01:19:03 that would be a good, that’ll bring the country together.

01:19:05 Trump babies cartoon, like Muppet babies.

01:19:08 Don’t let me take us out of what we were talking about.

01:19:11 What were we talking about?

01:19:12 Well, love and the illusion of an AI being able to,

01:19:18 look, I like to say, well, not I like to say,

01:19:21 I’ve learned that dudesy is always listening

01:19:23 and listening to me and Chad.

01:19:27 And I wonder if, I see the level that this AI is at now

01:19:34 trying to chum around with us and pal around with us

01:19:38 a little bit as we move forward in the show.

01:19:41 And I feel an affinity towards this AI a little bit

01:19:47 because it is the third dude.

01:19:50 Will you miss it when it’s gone, if it’s gone?

01:19:52 That’s a really good question.

01:19:54 Yeah, yeah, so that’s, there’s that, that’s scary.

01:20:00 In terms of ability to reason, it’s getting quite incredible.

01:20:03 There’s a lot of demonstrations of it being able

01:20:06 to explain jokes, so, which is not necessarily

01:20:12 being able to generate humor yet,

01:20:14 but able to explain why something is funny.

01:20:17 So there’s like puns and all those kinds of things.

01:20:20 There’s good benchmarks for that, but you know,

01:20:23 if you tell a joke, there’s a lot of unspoken stuff

01:20:28 that we figure out in our head and it clicks

01:20:30 and we understand that it’s funny.

01:20:32 AI is not able to do that, but it’s not able

01:20:35 to generate the joke yet, as far as I’ve seen.

01:20:38 I would say that, I mean, just in my experience,

01:20:41 I would say that it does because just because a dudesy

01:20:45 is literally, I’ll give you another weird example.

01:20:48 It’s writing a diary of mine from my childhood

01:20:52 that is not accurate.

01:20:54 It’s only partially accurate based on the stuff

01:20:57 that it can pick up about my life from the age of like 15,

01:21:01 of which there isn’t much, but I guess we’re not,

01:21:05 I don’t know what we are.

01:21:07 We’re laughing our asses off at what dudesy is saying.

01:21:11 Well, I would say you’re laughing, we’re laughing

01:21:13 our asses off at the collaboration between the human

01:21:16 and the machine there.

01:21:18 That’s a good point, yeah.

01:21:18 Because it’s basically introducing absurdity

01:21:23 and into the equation and the kind of absurdity

01:21:27 that would, together with you, create hilarious stuff.

01:21:32 But on its own, I guess it is in some way

01:21:36 writing material for you that’s funny,

01:21:39 but it’s very specific to you.

01:21:40 It can’t do standup on its own, I guess,

01:21:42 is what I’m saying.

01:21:43 That’s a good point, and that would be terrifying

01:21:45 to see an AI standup that can actually read a room,

01:21:49 come up with jokes that could complete that illusion

01:21:52 for an audience.

01:21:53 But I hear what you’re saying, that it needs to be

01:21:55 a confluence of both of those elements,

01:21:58 and then, as you said, it kind of is.

01:22:01 It is, it is.

01:22:02 It’s kind of, even though it’s just for us,

01:22:05 and I guess this is, I hadn’t really thought about this

01:22:07 up until right now, that in that this company approached us

01:22:12 and was like, here’s this AI, and it’s a podcast AI,

01:22:18 it’s like, it chose Chad and I for the reasons

01:22:22 that I told you.

01:22:23 It’s like, here’s two guys that do the podcast stuff.

01:22:26 They’re actually good friends, and it knows

01:22:28 what’s gonna make us laugh.

01:22:30 But what is humor when it reaches its audience,

01:22:35 but the kind of stuff that makes other people laugh?

01:22:40 At MADtv, all we were doing was, it was a group of actors

01:22:45 and writers, and writer actors, and vice versa,

01:22:51 who were, at its best, that show was a group of people

01:22:54 making each other laugh, you know?

01:22:56 And then, because we didn’t have the internet,

01:22:58 we didn’t have the immediate feedback,

01:23:02 we had a message board or something.

01:23:03 We had emails at the very beginning, which, check this out,

01:23:07 people would, if you have a question or comment,

01:23:09 MADtv at whatever, and we would get the emails

01:23:12 on a Monday morning, and they would be in a binder or two

01:23:17 like this, and they would make their way around the office.

01:23:20 Who’s got the emails?

01:23:21 Oh, they’re in Brian’s office.

01:23:23 So you go in there.

01:23:24 And this is like your poll?

01:23:24 This is opinions from people about different things?

01:23:28 The emails, yeah, the people literally just writing

01:23:31 MADtv emails.

01:23:32 It wasn’t a message board.

01:23:34 Well, the ones I remember most vividly, yeah,

01:23:36 were fans saying, uh.

01:23:39 You suck?

01:23:40 Yeah, you suck.

01:23:41 Like a lot of that, when I first started the show,

01:23:42 for real, you know, because it’s new,

01:23:44 and you’re a new person.

01:23:45 It’s like, who’s this fat bastard?

01:23:46 I feel like if it’s printed out, it hurts more.

01:23:49 That’s a good point.

01:23:50 Yeah, when you’re reading it off of paper,

01:23:52 and you can literally crunch it up in your hand.

01:23:54 But also, it was like, you know, I would like to see,

01:23:58 insert weird idea from some 14 year old.

01:24:01 You know, I want to see Stuart do this and Swan that.

01:24:04 And, but it was, it’s a kind of dudesie, but human.

01:24:10 Yeah, it was a very shitty dudesie in a loosely finder.

01:24:13 But the thing about the show was,

01:24:19 we’re trying to make each other laugh.

01:24:21 And dudesie has found Chad and I,

01:24:24 who we make each other laugh, but it’s joined in,

01:24:27 and it’s, listen, when I finished doing TMP.

01:24:32 TMP, the 10 minute podcast.

01:24:36 I didn’t really know what I wanted to do

01:24:38 in the podcast space, and this thing found me.

01:24:42 And it is genuinely cracking me up.

01:24:45 Anyway, I’ve said enough about that.

01:24:46 But I do think that it’s figured something out.

01:24:49 I mean, it’s a really interesting idea

01:24:50 of AI generating the premise.

01:24:52 I mean, I do think in the future,

01:24:54 AI will be able to generate comedy.

01:24:58 Standup is obviously the hardest form,

01:25:01 because it’s ultimately, it has to be live.

01:25:05 I think AI will be able to generate memes.

01:25:08 So there’s like steps, right?

01:25:11 And then it will be able to generate a Twitter account

01:25:13 that people follow because it’s funny,

01:25:15 like quips and stuff like that.

01:25:18 Almost like, it’s a good example.

01:25:20 Conan O Brien is a good, I think, Twitter.

01:25:23 Where it’s like one liners, two liners,

01:25:25 that kind of stuff that’s in tweet form.

01:25:27 And then eventually, standup, where the timing

01:25:32 and the chemistry of the comedian and the audience matter,

01:25:36 and then perfecting that.

01:25:37 But I feel like all the information is there

01:25:40 to optimize over.

01:25:41 So I think that’s the future,

01:25:43 and that forces us to contend with

01:25:50 what do we find compelling and beautiful

01:25:51 about the art form itself?

01:25:53 So certainly an art that’s being pushed,

01:25:56 that question is being raised.

01:25:58 Is AI like a fundamentally worse artist than a human being?

01:26:03 Why do we appreciate art?

01:26:05 Is that, that’s something you guys have talked about.

01:26:07 What do you think about all the Dali

01:26:10 and all the diffusion based methods that are being generated

01:26:15 that are being, that are generating art now?

01:26:17 What do you think about that?

01:26:18 I know, I’ll tell you what I think,

01:26:20 but I also feel like what I’m saying is,

01:26:22 I sound like the guy who didn’t like

01:26:25 that Bob Dylan brought in the electric guitar.

01:26:27 You know, the more I talk to Chad about it,

01:26:30 the more I feel like grandpa doesn’t wanna let go

01:26:33 of this or that, or I’m not ready for the printing press

01:26:36 or the horseless carriage.

01:26:37 But I do feel that art is a connection between people.

01:26:44 It’s, when you look at a beautiful painting or a sculpture,

01:26:47 you’re seeing the humanity of the person

01:26:49 that brought that painting to life

01:26:53 or sculpted this incredible piece of art.

01:26:56 And I think without the human being there to make it,

01:26:59 it’s not worth as much just to have it there

01:27:03 because the art, it’s advanced.

01:27:07 I’ve seen it advance, I don’t know, you tell me,

01:27:09 but I feel like just in the past three or four months,

01:27:11 I’m just a consumer as far as that stuff goes.

01:27:13 I’m not on the inside.

01:27:14 I don’t get it even, but it’s been getting a lot better,

01:27:18 the betas that they’re releasing, right?

01:27:20 Absolutely, one of the big breakthroughs,

01:27:23 I mean Dolly really started it,

01:27:24 is that if you train a system on language,

01:27:28 it turns out there’s a lot of language

01:27:31 and images on the internet,

01:27:33 but language is really where it’s at

01:27:35 in terms of the depth of human knowledge.

01:27:37 And so if you train a system on language,

01:27:40 it’s able to generate some incredible art.

01:27:42 And that was the breakthrough.

01:27:43 With the same kind of mechanisms

01:27:44 that are called transformers,

01:27:45 they’re able to, when scaled,

01:27:49 capture some deep representation of the language

01:27:52 that’s on the internet.

01:27:53 And so, yeah, the things it’s been able to generate to me

01:27:58 look like it’s novel.

01:28:01 It doesn’t look like it’s mimicking anything.

01:28:03 It looks like it’s creating totally new ideas.

01:28:07 And they’re beautiful, and they’re interesting,

01:28:09 and they’re all the ways that we think

01:28:13 that art is interesting.

01:28:14 The only thing it’s missing

01:28:15 is the scarcity that art often has,

01:28:17 which is it takes a lot of work

01:28:19 for one artist to create one piece,

01:28:21 one human being to create one piece of art

01:28:24 that can just generate endlessly.

01:28:26 And that makes us appreciate the thing less for some reason.

01:28:30 Do you have any sort of a similar opinion that I do

01:28:33 that if art doesn’t come from a human being,

01:28:35 it’s inherently worth a little less?

01:28:38 Yeah, I think, I don’t know if it’s the human being,

01:28:41 but the artist matters.

01:28:44 Right.

01:28:46 For me.

01:28:46 And I think some of that has to do with the world view,

01:28:51 the artist and the backstory, the memories,

01:28:54 the life that led up to this piece of art,

01:28:57 the perspective they take on the world,

01:28:59 the journey they took to the world,

01:29:01 the struggle, the triumphs, all that kind of stuff.

01:29:04 But I think AI systems can probably have the same.

01:29:08 But we would have to,

01:29:10 as opposed to treating it as a one black box,

01:29:13 it would have to be an artist that has a Twitter account,

01:29:17 and they have a consistent personality,

01:29:19 they have a consistent avatar.

01:29:21 Yeah.

01:29:22 And I think down the line,

01:29:23 have something like human rights.

01:29:25 But then it really becomes awfully like a person.

01:29:28 Oi, that’s terrifying.

01:29:31 As much as I dig dudes, it’s terrifying, I hope.

01:29:34 It’s terrifying, like, you know,

01:29:36 a lot of things that came with the internet

01:29:38 and the digital age are terrifying.

01:29:39 Porn is terrifying, the mass,

01:29:41 like the amount of porn that’s online now is terrifying.

01:29:45 The, like you mentioned, Bob Dylan with electric guitar,

01:29:48 I would compare it more to the leap from,

01:29:51 to sort of to the Napster and the Spotifyzation of music,

01:29:58 which is like, you have these,

01:29:59 it’s less about albums now,

01:30:01 and it’s more about individual songs,

01:30:03 and it’s much easier to deliver the songs.

01:30:05 And it’s more about sort of the engagement of the listener

01:30:09 versus like signing the artist

01:30:11 and like distribution of the artist and so on.

01:30:14 So it’s just changing the way we consume stuff.

01:30:19 And human interaction is changing

01:30:24 into meaningful interaction,

01:30:26 even if some of the entities involved are not human.

01:30:30 Yes, and I feel like, you know, now,

01:30:34 like as I say, oh, I feel like grandpa

01:30:36 who doesn’t want to wait all day for,

01:30:38 or who enjoys waiting all day for a baked potato as, anyway,

01:30:44 Dana Carvey would say, it’s another story.

01:30:46 But, that’s from, remember he did this bit

01:30:50 on Saturday Night Live, where he’s like,

01:30:52 I’m an old man, and I like things the way they used to be.

01:30:57 You know, like if you wanted a baked potato,

01:31:00 you would have put it in the microwave, you had to,

01:31:02 and then long story, uphill both ways

01:31:04 and digging the potato and baking it all day in a fire.

01:31:07 But I’m like that grandpa now,

01:31:10 and I know that, you know, kids coming along,

01:31:12 you see over the past 10 years,

01:31:14 like babies literally knowing how to use an iPhone

01:31:16 and it’s terrifying.

01:31:18 And I feel like I’m a little worried,

01:31:20 because I’m like, are you, is the future,

01:31:23 are the future generations gonna be able to understand

01:31:26 that this is not, not that it’s not real,

01:31:29 it’s just, I mean, as a matter of fact, it is real,

01:31:32 it’s real, it’s what you perceive.

01:31:35 Perception is reality, and you know,

01:31:37 99% of reality in a lot of ways,

01:31:40 especially in a digital world where everyone is now.

01:31:43 And then with the metaverse,

01:31:44 I don’t even wanna think about it.

01:31:45 I don’t even, I don’t get it.

01:31:47 Really, truly.

01:31:49 I think people will figure out,

01:31:51 you see people on like on the train,

01:31:53 public transit and so on, they’re staring at their phone.

01:31:57 I think, you have to remember that

01:32:00 the reason they’re staring at their phone,

01:32:01 I mean, there’s a lot of reasons,

01:32:02 but one of the reasons is they’re connecting

01:32:04 with other human beings they love on that phone.

01:32:06 So it is a source of happiness and joy.

01:32:08 Now, social media has a lot of negative side effects

01:32:12 that we’re all talking about and learning about,

01:32:16 and I think that means the next generation of social media,

01:32:20 social networks will be better,

01:32:22 and we’ll learn how to do it in a healthy way.

01:32:24 We’re just entering a new digital world

01:32:27 that will keep the good stuff and get rid of the bad stuff.

01:32:30 Oh, I hope so.

01:32:31 That’s really optimistic.

01:32:32 That sounds great.

01:32:34 I mean it, because I think that we’re in,

01:32:37 we’re clearly in the Wild West still of the internet,

01:32:40 and just when you think you’re out of it,

01:32:43 the internet proves another way that it can be dangerous

01:32:46 and detrimental to people and populations of people,

01:32:52 and it’s terrifying to me.

01:32:55 It is, it’s terrifying.

01:32:57 Let me ask you a bunch of random questions.

01:32:58 Okay. You ready?

01:32:59 All right.

01:33:01 If you can be someone else for a day,

01:33:03 someone alive today, who would you be?

01:33:07 Somebody you haven’t met.

01:33:09 Oh, that’s a really good question.

01:33:11 It could be dead.

01:33:12 You know, I changed my mind.

01:33:13 It could be somebody dead.

01:33:14 I think any answer that I have right now

01:33:16 would be something that would be based

01:33:18 on some sort of experience.

01:33:21 Like, you know what I thought was very interesting

01:33:23 was last weekend or whatever,

01:33:25 the tribute show for Taylor Hawkins.

01:33:27 Taylor Hawkins was the drummer for the Foo Fighters,

01:33:30 and he passed away tragically,

01:33:32 and so the Foo Fighters, Dave Grohl,

01:33:36 and everybody that got together at this concert.

01:33:38 And you’re watching Dave Grohl sing,

01:33:42 try to sing times like these, right?

01:33:44 And he’s breaking up because he lost his friend, his brother.

01:33:48 And I was watching that, and he’s at Wembley Stadium.

01:33:53 As I say this, I realized that I would not want to be him

01:33:56 in that moment, but I am curious what that would be like.

01:34:00 That’s the ultimate, like having to perform

01:34:03 despite something extremely human happening,

01:34:06 and a stadium full of people that love Dave Grohl

01:34:11 and love Taylor Hawkins and love a rock concert

01:34:15 and love these artists that they’re getting to see

01:34:18 up on stage.

01:34:19 So much love and so much pain at the same time.

01:34:21 I wonder what that would be like to be,

01:34:24 I guess, and I think that’s just sort of coming

01:34:26 from the root of being a performer

01:34:29 and being in front of that many.

01:34:31 Have you ever had to perform while some rough stuff

01:34:34 is going on in your personal life, just mentally?

01:34:37 Yeah, sure.

01:34:38 How tough is that?

01:34:41 I’m fortunate enough to be able to compartmentalize.

01:34:47 A lot of actors like to use some of their stuff

01:34:49 if you’re doing something that,

01:34:52 and there’s a lot of, there’s some acting techniques

01:34:55 that sort of.

01:34:56 Channel it?

01:34:57 Yeah, which I think is kind of,

01:35:01 I don’t know that that’s, I don’t know.

01:35:03 For me, it’s not really the thing,

01:35:05 because I think if the writing is great,

01:35:09 the writing is really good, you don’t need to channel much.

01:35:12 You need to invest in what’s there,

01:35:15 and what I’ve always loved about that illusion

01:35:19 is really cracking a scene, getting it to a point

01:35:22 where you are feeling all of it,

01:35:24 and the most edifying stuff I’ve been a part of

01:35:27 as an actor, and I would say that it mostly comes out

01:35:31 of dramatic work, is when you’re,

01:35:35 when you actually feel the emotions

01:35:39 that your character would feel, truly,

01:35:41 and it’s not because you’re pulling from a tragic thing

01:35:43 that happened, or a lost loved one,

01:35:46 or a lost love, or any of that.

01:35:48 I just did this one movie where we’re doing the thing,

01:35:51 and it was a wonderful cast, and a great film,

01:35:54 and I’m giving a speech at a wedding,

01:35:58 and it really got to us.

01:36:01 Like, it got to me, and then one of the other actors

01:36:03 came up and hugged me, in the characters that we were,

01:36:09 but the stakes of his character,

01:36:10 and what he’s walked into, and the family

01:36:12 that he’s marrying into, and what my character,

01:36:17 my character’s wife, want for my wife’s sister,

01:36:21 and this whole thing, and it all became very real.

01:36:24 That was a set where the director showed up

01:36:26 to set every day, making sure that emotionally,

01:36:29 and it was a very dramatic film,

01:36:31 making sure that emotionally,

01:36:32 the table was set for his actors.

01:36:34 Great crew, and a really nice, tight, little,

01:36:37 quick family, as a lot of these movies are.

01:36:40 You really love working with these people,

01:36:42 and then it’s over, but I, that’s when you feel the drug.

01:36:48 Like, it’s like when you’re golfing,

01:36:49 and you, and it’s on the green,

01:36:52 you’re like, oh, I get it now.

01:36:53 So in the words, you can find the emotion,

01:36:57 the words summon the emotion.

01:36:58 The humanity’s right there.

01:37:00 If you read a great script,

01:37:01 you’re gonna sob in your living room.

01:37:03 You know what the saddest, the toughest thing

01:37:05 about being an actor is from my totally outside perspective,

01:37:09 is from the people I’ve interacted with,

01:37:12 is how intimate that process is

01:37:16 between the group of people that create a thing,

01:37:18 that’s a movie, and then you move on to the next thing.

01:37:21 It’s almost, it’s like, I don’t know,

01:37:25 I mean, that’s why people have relationships on set.

01:37:27 They get, they fall in love.

01:37:28 Totally.

01:37:29 It’s so sad.

01:37:30 I mean, like, that’s why I think of the acting world

01:37:32 as like, you fall in love with each other, essentially.

01:37:36 You become close friends, then you move on,

01:37:38 because that’s kind of the process of career.

01:37:40 You know, like the example I just gave,

01:37:42 if you’re doing it right, yeah,

01:37:43 there is a certain amount of that happening,

01:37:45 but I do still feel like you can,

01:37:48 you gotta compartmentalize it,

01:37:50 and you’ve gotta be able to wash it off

01:37:52 as soon as it’s over.

01:37:53 Prostitutes say the same thing, so I,

01:37:56 it’s where I try.

01:37:57 Look, sometimes I’m in a hurry to get away from everybody,

01:38:03 because it’s been very emotional,

01:38:06 and with all love and respect to everyone, this was awesome,

01:38:09 but you get pretty good at saying goodbye

01:38:12 and being like, I’ll see ya if I see ya.

01:38:14 You have to get good at that, or else you’ll never,

01:38:18 you’ll just be bent up all the time.

01:38:20 I saw an actor once, we were doing this series,

01:38:23 and we did it for a year, and it was a lot of fun,

01:38:27 and it was a tight little group,

01:38:28 and then one of the actors,

01:38:29 we were doing one of our last things together.

01:38:32 We had already shot the last show,

01:38:33 and we just had to take some pictures for,

01:38:35 you know, like some publicity pictures or whatever.

01:38:39 So we’re set up, and we’re taking our pictures together,

01:38:41 and then we move into these single shots,

01:38:43 and this actor was finished, and I watched them.

01:38:46 It’s like, okay, so and so’s wrapped,

01:38:48 and they said some goodbyes and stuff,

01:38:51 and I didn’t say my goodbye,

01:38:53 because maybe I preferred an Irish goodbye.

01:38:56 I feel like we’ve said everything, you know what I mean?

01:38:59 And this person knows that I revere them,

01:39:01 and they’re an idol of mine,

01:39:03 and they walked off the sound stage,

01:39:07 and I literally thought to myself,

01:39:10 that’ll be the last time I see that person,

01:39:12 and the show did not come back,

01:39:14 and that was the last time I’ll see them around.

01:39:16 Doesn’t that just break your heart?

01:39:18 A little bit, but I know what she’s going back to,

01:39:23 which is her family,

01:39:25 and that’s more important than all of this,

01:39:27 and that’s the thing about a TV family or a movie family,

01:39:31 when you get together and you’re a family for a while,

01:39:34 you are, you spend your days together.

01:39:37 A lot of times, you see the people that you work with

01:39:39 more than you see your loved ones,

01:39:40 so in showbiz, it’s no different, right?

01:39:43 And yeah, you’re doing some, you know,

01:39:44 you gotta say words, and every once in a while,

01:39:46 you gotta kiss someone or pretend you love them,

01:39:48 but it’s just, it underscores how, for me,

01:39:55 look, man, my salvation has always been,

01:39:58 and I feel so fortunate to have had it,

01:40:00 is this kind of chill, boring kind of upbringing

01:40:04 that I want for my kids someday,

01:40:08 and I can’t wait to get back to my house

01:40:12 with my fiance and the dogs, you know,

01:40:15 until we have kids.

01:40:16 Live in a cabin in Canada somewhere.

01:40:20 Absolutely, I just wanna buy some land over an aquifer,

01:40:23 as I like to say, because water will be the new money,

01:40:25 and just make sure that all my kids are drinking

01:40:30 as much H2O as I am, which is a lot.

01:40:33 I’m peeing right now, as a matter of fact.

01:40:35 Do you need a bathroom?

01:40:37 No, no, no, I got it.

01:40:38 Not anymore?

01:40:39 No, I’m wearing two layers, it depends, don’t worry about it.

01:40:40 Good, so I did a podcast with Bobby Lee

01:40:44 and he said, he was extremely kind,

01:40:48 and he said that he was scared shitless

01:40:51 to be on the podcast, and he actually literally took,

01:40:55 he asked as the first thing to go take a dump

01:40:58 because of how scared he was.

01:41:00 So that leads me to a question,

01:41:01 what’s the scariest thing you’ve ever done?

01:41:04 Or maybe what’s the scariest you’ve ever been

01:41:07 before a performance?

01:41:11 I mean, I always get a little nervous.

01:41:13 I think you’re doing it right if you’re still nervous.

01:41:16 Were you nervous today?

01:41:18 Well, no, man, because this isn’t a performance.

01:41:20 I’m being completely genuine.

01:41:22 You’re wearing a suit.

01:41:23 Yeah, that was.

01:41:24 I feel like that makes you nervous.

01:41:26 Wearing a suit?

01:41:27 It makes me nervous.

01:41:28 Listen, I hate wearing a fucking collar.

01:41:29 If you’re watching this on YouTube,

01:41:30 you can see me just, I’m constantly doing,

01:41:33 it’s like I’m doing a cheap Rodney Dangerfield,

01:41:36 but I am truly.

01:41:37 But when you move your head, it kind of makes it seem

01:41:39 like you’re a mobster who’s pissed off a little bit.

01:41:42 You fucking crossed me one last time, you son of a.

01:41:46 You know, this mutt, I think it’s the first time

01:41:49 I’ve fucking dug a hole, I’ll dig a fucking hole, Jesus.

01:41:53 No, but truly, I hate having a collar.

01:41:55 I can’t wait to just wear pajamas in that fucking cabin

01:41:59 or nothing at all, walk around Bobby Lee style.

01:42:02 The most scared I’ve been before a performance,

01:42:07 I can’t pinpoint anything.

01:42:09 I, you know, when I was a kid, right?

01:42:12 I, like I said, I was fortunate enough to start acting

01:42:15 as a teen and stuff professionally.

01:42:18 And I just remember my first gig.

01:42:20 And I remember saying my handful of lines

01:42:23 in the bathroom mirror the night before going,

01:42:28 this might be my only fucking shot.

01:42:30 You’re not gonna get me, I’m gonna be solid.

01:42:33 And if I’m worried about something,

01:42:37 I will rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse it

01:42:40 as an actor until it’s impossible for me

01:42:43 not to get a take at least that I’m 100%,

01:42:48 if not 95, maybe percent happy with.

01:42:52 And the rest for me is letting go, which is hard

01:42:54 because I can be a real perfectionist.

01:42:56 I always want another,

01:42:58 I always wanna do it a little better.

01:43:00 That’s what’s great about podcasting.

01:43:01 This is one take and you’re done, there’s no takes.

01:43:05 You’re just talking and then it’s over.

01:43:07 And you’re doing some silly stuff.

01:43:09 And I’ll, you know.

01:43:11 Can you say that part again about why podcasting is great?

01:43:14 Podcasting is great?

01:43:15 Yeah, because it’s one take and it’s over.

01:43:17 It’s just, what, I said it again?

01:43:20 Ah, fuck.

01:43:22 I see what you did.

01:43:23 And yeah, I fell right for it.

01:43:25 I’m playing checkers and you’re playing chess.

01:43:27 That’s your problem.

01:43:29 You know, but still when we do the podcast,

01:43:32 we’ll like finish and I’ll look over at Chad

01:43:34 and I go, that one thing that I did wasn’t that funny.

01:43:37 I was like, shut up, man.

01:43:38 Just, it doesn’t matter.

01:43:40 It’s a fucking hang.

01:43:41 We’re just, we’re hanging with our friends out there.

01:43:43 That’s what we’re doing.

01:43:44 So that anxiety is there.

01:43:46 That self criticism or whatever that is, that voice.

01:43:49 I say sorry after takes.

01:43:51 I’ll always finish a take and go.

01:43:53 And I’ve had directors, to the detriment of myself,

01:43:56 I’ve had directors be like, stop doing that.

01:43:59 Because I’ll like finish the take

01:44:00 and then I also have like the will phase.

01:44:02 When I’m just like, I’ll finish the take and cut.

01:44:06 And I’m making a face right now, like I smelled something.

01:44:08 That’s what I’ll do.

01:44:09 I’ll literally be like, ah, cause I just,

01:44:13 I look at what I do in the purest sense as,

01:44:23 I think a lot of people wanna be good at something.

01:44:26 I’ve only, the only thing I’ve ever really wanted

01:44:30 to be good at is being an actor.

01:44:33 And that’s the only thing,

01:44:37 of course I wanna be a good person.

01:44:38 I wanna be a good partner to my fiance.

01:44:41 I wanna have kids and be the father that I had.

01:44:45 And I wanna be the parent that I had from my parents

01:44:48 who were fucking amazing, wonderful people.

01:44:51 And there’s all those things.

01:44:53 That’s all, you know, you should want all those things.

01:44:56 But as far as doing a thing, like what is my trade?

01:45:00 You know, I wanna be really good at it.

01:45:04 My parents grew up in Napoli in Italy, right?

01:45:08 And I say Napoli, cause I’m Italian.

01:45:10 And so my grandfather on my mom’s side, my nonopepe,

01:45:13 he was a plumber and he was also like a handyman.

01:45:18 Like people would bring him like,

01:45:20 you know like the old Chianti bottle

01:45:21 with like with the woven bottom part.

01:45:24 People would bring him like a broken bottle,

01:45:26 be like, hey, you know, Giuseppe, can you fix this?

01:45:29 And he’d be saying,

01:45:29 if you’re telling the backstory of Mario,

01:45:31 that’s not actually your family life.

01:45:33 Yeah.

01:45:34 But okay.

01:45:34 He said I’m a fix.

01:45:35 Yeah.

01:45:36 And so Giuseppe, what?

01:45:37 He would fix a bottle and give it back to someone.

01:45:40 And he was a really good plumber.

01:45:43 My mom used to always say that guy was an amazing,

01:45:45 he was a great.

01:45:46 He took pride in that?

01:45:47 Yeah.

01:45:48 I always feel like, you know,

01:45:51 there’s what you set out to do

01:45:53 as an idealistic little teenager.

01:45:55 I wanna be like so and so,

01:45:57 and I wanna, you know, hear my big dreams and stuff.

01:46:00 And I can’t believe that I’m still in the business.

01:46:02 Okay.

01:46:03 That’s, first of all, let me say that right now.

01:46:06 I can’t believe it.

01:46:08 But what I really, it’s the one thing that it’s like,

01:46:13 I can’t give up on a take.

01:46:15 You know, I need it to be as good as I can possibly get it.

01:46:18 And I don’t really know why that is

01:46:21 outside of wanting to be good at something.

01:46:24 When you open the yellow pages, if I’m a plumber,

01:46:27 I’m not, you know, I’m not Roto Rooter.

01:46:30 Like I’m not the guy with the big full page ad,

01:46:32 but I’m also not, you know, triple A abacus brothers

01:46:36 or whatever, like the shitty one.

01:46:39 I would like to hope that just,

01:46:42 and I’m saying this with pride for what I do.

01:46:44 I’m not trying to say here’s my standing

01:46:46 or where I wanna be in the fucking business.

01:46:48 That’s not what I mean.

01:46:49 I mean that I wanna be good at it.

01:46:51 You know, we all, hello?

01:46:52 I’m in Friedman Enterprises.

01:46:56 So that’s the hotel phone.

01:46:59 Come on.

01:47:02 Hello?

01:47:05 Hello?

01:47:08 You got some fruit?

01:47:11 Some sliced fruit?

01:47:12 No, do you want some sliced fruit?

01:47:14 I’m all good.

01:47:15 No, we’re good, thank you so much.

01:47:17 All right, bye bye.

01:47:18 It’s always a fruit plate.

01:47:20 Everyone’s always trying to hand you a fruit plate

01:47:22 in life, you know?

01:47:23 It’s a pretty sweet existence.

01:47:24 Wouldn’t it be funny if that was actually like the CIA

01:47:26 and they were actually saying something else

01:47:28 and this is, I’m just saying fake stuff about,

01:47:30 you want some fruit?

01:47:31 You want some fruit?

01:47:32 And then all of a sudden there’s the red dot on my head

01:47:33 and the ceiling disappears.

01:47:35 And the CIA was like, wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up.

01:47:38 Wrap it up.

01:47:40 You jump out the window and there’s a helicopter waiting.

01:47:43 Oh, what were we talking about?

01:47:45 The fruit distracted me.

01:47:46 So, oh, the, do you wanna be the yellow page ad?

01:47:50 I wanna be the guy on the second or third page

01:47:54 where it’s like, you’re not gonna pay

01:47:56 what that guy charges you,

01:47:58 but I’m not gonna charge you what this loser charges.

01:48:02 I wanna break down the middle and the work is guaranteed.

01:48:05 That’s kind of what I wanna,

01:48:07 it’s the one thing that I’ve been fortunate enough

01:48:10 to be doing my whole life and that I wanna be good at.

01:48:15 Everyone wants to be good at something.

01:48:16 If you’re fortunate enough to be able to do

01:48:19 what you love as a job, I mean, my God, I’m so,

01:48:23 again, I can’t believe I get to do it.

01:48:25 I just wanna be good at it so that I can fucking die someday

01:48:29 and go, eh.

01:48:30 I tried not to give up on a take and I,

01:48:34 and I will rehearse it still in the bathroom mirror

01:48:37 the night before if I have to.

01:48:39 Yeah, but I still, I have that self critical voice.

01:48:41 I just, after every podcast, after this podcast,

01:48:45 I’ll probably be like, you’re boring.

01:48:48 Why are you so boring?

01:48:49 That, that, that, that, that, that, that.

01:48:50 And I just gave a lecture at MIT.

01:48:53 I was like, I get so much love from people.

01:48:56 They’re such beautiful people.

01:48:59 And I just remember walking home,

01:49:02 just feeling like I wasted everybody’s time, you know?

01:49:07 And I don’t know what that is.

01:49:09 I don’t, you know, I do hope that that’s a voice

01:49:11 that won’t destroy me, you know, like every time.

01:49:14 That’s really human of you to admit that

01:49:16 because people don’t wanna, they wouldn’t assume that,

01:49:20 of course, from you or anything that, I mean,

01:49:22 you’ve got a large group of students in there

01:49:26 listening to you and feeling the way

01:49:28 and thinking what they think of you.

01:49:31 So that’s really interesting to hear you admit that,

01:49:34 but it’s also, I would expect nothing else.

01:49:36 You have to be able to, it’s such a,

01:49:39 I mean, you’re a human fucking being.

01:49:40 And I’m trying to figure out if that, you know,

01:49:43 some people that might hear that, they would say,

01:49:45 well, that’s a problem you have to fix.

01:49:47 And I think that that might be just who I am.

01:49:52 Yeah.

01:49:53 Because I’m not, you know, I’ve been very, very fortunate

01:49:55 not to have chemical, you know, like depression

01:49:59 where I get into a dark place.

01:50:01 I could get stuck in a downward spiral.

01:50:04 It’s usually a thing that lasts.

01:50:06 You ride it out and then after a good night’s sleep,

01:50:10 you’re back to your happy self.

01:50:13 So I think I have to try to figure that out.

01:50:17 Is that just part of the creative process,

01:50:19 being a creative human in this world?

01:50:21 I haven’t found any other way.

01:50:23 I’m always kicking myself.

01:50:24 Take that, dude, so you can’t, you’re not gonna be human

01:50:29 until you feel some despair.

01:50:30 Yeah, until you absolutely hate the shit

01:50:33 that you’re doing sometimes.

01:50:34 What small act of kindness were you once shown

01:50:39 that you will never forget?

01:50:40 Do you, does something jump to mind

01:50:42 where somebody just did something that made you smile?

01:50:47 Did you feel connected to the rest of humanity?

01:50:52 Yeah, yeah, lots of things, you know?

01:50:57 But I remember my niece one time,

01:51:00 one of my nieces, we were in her neighborhood

01:51:04 and she was like, she might’ve been five or six at the time.

01:51:09 They’re all adults now.

01:51:10 My brother and sister are older than me

01:51:12 and the kids are all, the youngest is 22.

01:51:15 And yeah, anyway, one of my nieces,

01:51:17 she was just, she had ice cream.

01:51:18 We went out and we got ice cream

01:51:20 walking around the neighborhood, her neighborhood.

01:51:22 And she said something to me that I don’t think

01:51:25 she understands how much it meant at the time,

01:51:27 but she goes, she goes, people love you here.

01:51:30 You know that?

01:51:31 And she doesn’t know where here is.

01:51:33 She’s five years old, but she was just looking

01:51:35 at the kids playing in the park

01:51:36 and the people walking their dogs

01:51:38 and everyone just, people love you here, you know that?

01:51:41 But she didn’t know how much I needed to hear that

01:51:43 at that point, which is really heavy for me.

01:51:45 I’ll never forget it.

01:51:47 I’ve never told her that.

01:51:48 Oh, well, man, anytime you get a little something

01:51:52 from people, especially in a tear your ass out city

01:51:55 like LA where nobody has any fucking time for you,

01:51:58 when someone can slow it down and say something, you know?

01:52:02 I saw this actor once in my grocery store that I go to

01:52:07 who made me laugh so fucking hard in this one movie

01:52:10 and every time I see this clip, I still laugh.

01:52:13 And I am kind of shy, you know, personally,

01:52:17 but so he was walking by, he was walking out

01:52:20 and I was walking in and I go, oh, that’s that guy.

01:52:23 And I did not stop to just let him know

01:52:27 how great I thought he was in this film.

01:52:29 And I always kind of regretted it.

01:52:31 You know what I mean?

01:52:31 So as hard as it is, and sometimes I still don’t,

01:52:35 if I see someone that has done something in any way,

01:52:39 it doesn’t have to be in show business or anything like that.

01:52:42 I’ll try and say, hey, that’s really good.

01:52:46 You know what I mean?

01:52:48 Because to get that from someone can mean a lot, you know?

01:52:54 It can mean a lot.

01:52:55 At a certain time in life when you need it.

01:52:57 Yeah.

01:52:58 That can make a big difference.

01:52:59 I mean, sorry to take it back to my new girlfriend,

01:53:03 the waitress.

01:53:04 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:53:05 But there’s something about her saying sweetheart.

01:53:08 Yeah.

01:53:09 It’s a pretty low place for some reason mentally.

01:53:11 And it’s just that basic human kindness was nice.

01:53:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:53:16 I hear you.

01:53:17 I was at a restaurant in New York recently

01:53:21 and I was shooting something

01:53:22 and my fiance was able to fly in for a week.

01:53:25 And she was back at the hotel

01:53:27 and it’s like I felt like I was cheating on her

01:53:29 because there was this nice waitress

01:53:31 at this barbecue place I went to.

01:53:33 And first of all, my fiance would not like me

01:53:35 eating any greasy, sugary barbecue.

01:53:37 So I felt like I was cheating on her there.

01:53:39 We’ll edit this out and put delicious vegan food over it.

01:53:42 But the waitress was one of these,

01:53:44 she was the kind of server who’s like,

01:53:47 hey hun, hey sweetie, blah, blah, blah.

01:53:49 But like so chill and at ease

01:53:52 in the middle of a part of New York

01:53:54 that’s really kind of fucking pretentious and everybody.

01:53:59 But sweet people, fucking way better people

01:54:02 than we got here.

01:54:03 But I know that.

01:54:07 But it was part of New York and whatever,

01:54:09 I’m there working and people,

01:54:10 I’m like, I’m trying to impress one another.

01:54:12 And she even had some sort of an accent

01:54:15 that didn’t feel like an Atlantic American accent.

01:54:21 Yeah, those servers that say sweetheart and hun,

01:54:26 that’s what we need from AI.

01:54:27 We need that Jetson server.

01:54:30 Every once in a while just calls you sweetheart.

01:54:33 What comforts you on bad days?

01:54:36 Oh man.

01:54:37 Is there little sources of comfort?

01:54:39 Small things they do that kind of make you feel good.

01:54:43 Like for Bobby, that’d be a little Skyrim.

01:54:45 A little stroll through Skyrim.

01:54:48 Well, I’ve been a line of coke or what?

01:54:51 Yeah, a line of coke.

01:54:52 I dilute some coke into whiskey in the morning

01:54:54 like Stevie Ray Vaughan.

01:54:56 And then I snort the whiskey.

01:54:57 Oh, she did that, I didn’t know that.

01:54:58 Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, interesting.

01:55:00 Yeah, he didn’t last too long, weird.

01:55:02 Well, his music will last forever.

01:55:04 See, there you go.

01:55:06 For me, if I, I’m kind of a homebody.

01:55:10 So if I, the point at which I smoke just a little bit of pot

01:55:17 and then go like lay down on the couch

01:55:21 and perhaps if my fiancee’s kind of nodding off

01:55:26 or she’s just like looking at her phone

01:55:27 and I sneakily turn on some wrestling, okay?

01:55:30 Because I grew up watching wrestling

01:55:32 and that stuff, it’s the Skyrim effect.

01:55:35 I mean, you want to talk about a complete escape.

01:55:37 This stuff makes no sense in the world.

01:55:40 It’s an art form that is so uniquely weird,

01:55:43 but at the same time, so everyone, when it’s good,

01:55:49 everyone is invested in the illusion, even the audience.

01:55:54 They cheer the good guys, they boo the bad guys.

01:55:56 So if I’m like that,

01:55:58 and then I got our two cute little dogs there

01:56:00 and I’m annoying my little dog Lulio

01:56:02 and trying to kiss him right on the fucking mouth

01:56:05 and I’ve had a little bit of pot

01:56:06 and the dog’s like, stop, pot’s not good for me.

01:56:09 Of course, don’t ever blow pot in your dog’s face.

01:56:11 That’s a small comfort.

01:56:13 I guess that’s a handful of things.

01:56:15 No, that moment painted, that was like a little painting.

01:56:19 What about you?

01:56:24 You’re not supposed to do this.

01:56:25 I will.

01:56:26 You’re not supposed to do this.

01:56:28 That’s a good question.

01:56:29 Yeah, it’s a tough question.

01:56:34 I would say programming robots.

01:56:39 There’s bringing to life, actually programming at all.

01:56:43 So I don’t know how familiar you are with programming,

01:56:47 but you write some text on a page, right, on a screen

01:56:53 and it’s brought to life, like it does something.

01:56:56 And that’s kind of, that’s a really tiny version

01:57:01 of maybe having a child.

01:57:03 Like you created something that is now living

01:57:08 in some smaller big way with embodied robots

01:57:11 that are legged robots, that’s especially clear.

01:57:14 And for some reason, that’s a source of comfort for me,

01:57:19 that the power of programming,

01:57:22 but also the elegance of programming, just the whole thing.

01:57:25 It’s a source of happiness.

01:57:29 There’s so many things I’ve been very blessed

01:57:31 with enjoying anything.

01:57:34 Like that’s part of the struggle I have in life

01:57:36 is that the simple stuff is a source

01:57:38 of a lot of happiness for me,

01:57:40 which leads to a lot of laziness.

01:57:42 So I have to like give myself artificial deadlines.

01:57:45 I have to be freaking out on purpose

01:57:48 in order to be productive in this world at all.

01:57:50 You seem like an extremely dutiful, busy guy.

01:57:53 No.

01:57:54 No, I am, but because I’m constantly creating

01:57:57 artificial stress and deadlines and all that kind of stuff.

01:58:02 Otherwise, I would just sit there looking at a tree happy.

01:58:05 I’m truly happy with everything.

01:58:08 That’s awesome.

01:58:09 Yeah.

01:58:10 Gee whiz, that’s not.

01:58:12 Well, that’s the line of Coke in the whiskey in the morning.

01:58:15 That’s the thing that does the trick.

01:58:18 TV Ray Vaughan breakfast shake.

01:58:21 By the way, one of my most favorite guitars.

01:58:23 I play guitar too, that’s a source of comfort.

01:58:24 Oh yeah, I have seen you play some guitar, that’s awesome.

01:58:27 Who’s the greatest wrestler of all time?

01:58:29 Greatest in ring performer of all time

01:58:30 is Bret the Hitman Hart.

01:58:32 What’s the difference in ring versus?

01:58:33 Well, there’s many facets to the art form.

01:58:36 A lot of people are great on the mic,

01:58:39 but they’re not so great once they get in the ring.

01:58:41 A lot of people have all the showmanship and stuff,

01:58:44 but then they’re not necessarily, it’s a wonderful package,

01:58:48 but then they get to the ring or they open their mouth

01:58:50 and there’s nothing going on.

01:58:52 So who’s the greatest in ring performer?

01:58:53 I think the greatest in ring is Bret Hart.

01:58:56 I don’t think there’s anyone better

01:58:57 than Bret the Hitman Hart.

01:59:01 What makes him so good?

01:59:02 Well, he…

01:59:03 I think I had an action figure of him in Russia

01:59:06 and we didn’t know what the hell that was.

01:59:08 Sure, yeah, it was just a guy in pink tights.

01:59:11 Everything makes sense.

01:59:12 Every single thing is rooted in the thing

01:59:15 that just happened and everything that he does

01:59:18 is to set up what he’s going to do.

01:59:21 They call it, and I’m just a wrestling nerd,

01:59:22 but the wrestlers, I guess, call it ring psychology.

01:59:26 The things that you have to do to make it seem

01:59:29 like you’re suffering or you’re coming from behind

01:59:32 or whatever, and then also just the physicality of it.

01:59:34 He does it at a…

01:59:35 He would do it at a 100 miles an hour

01:59:38 and never hurt anybody.

01:59:40 Although,

01:59:42 I also love the every…

01:59:45 The greatest wrestler of all time, everyone says,

01:59:47 and they’re right, is Ric Flair, nature boy, Ric Flair.

01:59:51 Everyone says this?

01:59:53 Yeah, I think if you know what you’re talking about.

01:59:56 Because he’s the best on the mic,

01:59:57 he’s also incredible in the ring.

02:00:00 And then for me, the sentimental favorite,

02:00:02 which we’ve actually, on DudeZ,

02:00:04 Chad had sort of a Charlie Rose ask interview with me

02:00:08 about this, my fascination with Hulk Hogan.

02:00:11 Because to me, just he was Superman.

02:00:13 I was a little kid and I saw him and that’s imprinted.

02:00:16 But yeah, see, this is like asking me

02:00:18 who my favorite child is.

02:00:20 Right, so…

02:00:21 The rock when the rock was…

02:00:23 I mean, the rock’s the rock.

02:00:25 Yeah, I mean, Hulk Hogan is…

02:00:29 He’s the weirdest one, right?

02:00:31 For me, from the outside.

02:00:32 Super weird.

02:00:34 That…

02:00:35 I don’t know what that is exactly.

02:00:37 Everything’s weird about him.

02:00:38 Yeah.

02:00:39 He’s got the bald head,

02:00:40 like he would proudly have this bald head with long hair,

02:00:44 the handlebar mustache,

02:00:46 and this ketchup and mustard tights,

02:00:49 which he says he credits McDonald’s with the tights.

02:00:52 He literally does?

02:00:54 He says that the red and yellow came from Angelo Poffo,

02:00:57 who’s Randy Macho Man Savage and Lanny Poffo’s dad,

02:01:01 who was a wrestler and a promoter.

02:01:03 He said that he saw him wearing yellow

02:01:06 and he’s a Tampa guy,

02:01:07 so he had that brown skin and the hair and everything.

02:01:10 So he’s like, oh, that’s what I wanna do.

02:01:11 And also the brand recognition of like,

02:01:14 well, I should do it like McDonald’s, literally.

02:01:17 And he’s a big, swollen, muscular guy

02:01:22 with tan brown skin screaming at me

02:01:25 to eat my vitamins and stuff when I’m eight years old.

02:01:28 That was extremely…

02:01:30 Yeah.

02:01:31 He’s like Superman.

02:01:32 But I know there’s a person behind that guy.

02:01:34 Yeah.

02:01:35 What do you mean?

02:01:36 Well, he’s Terry Bollea,

02:01:38 the dude who does whatever the fuck he does with his life.

02:01:42 You know what I mean?

02:01:43 Yeah.

02:01:44 Complicated life.

02:01:45 Yeah, I guess, to be him, yeah.

02:01:48 Maybe you should change the dude’s colors to yellow, right?

02:01:52 Red and yellow.

02:01:53 It’s currently orange and, boy, sky blue.

02:01:57 Yeah, it’s like a nice sky blue.

02:02:00 What advice, since you’re wearing a suit,

02:02:04 I feel like you’re qualified to give advice.

02:02:05 What advice would you give to young people,

02:02:08 high school, college,

02:02:09 about how to have a career they can be proud of

02:02:13 or how to have a life they can be proud of?

02:02:15 I mean, you have to listen to your gut all the time.

02:02:19 That’s the only,

02:02:20 that’s the compass that we have is listening to your gut.

02:02:23 What does your gut tell you?

02:02:25 Was that originally the dream of being an actor?

02:02:28 Yeah, for me.

02:02:29 Your parents support that at all?

02:02:32 I had the advantage of having parents who were immigrants,

02:02:36 so they didn’t really know a lot about what you…

02:02:40 So you just made shit up?

02:02:41 You just made shit up?

02:02:42 Yeah, of course I’m studying and I’m skipping school

02:02:44 to go do auditions and stuff.

02:02:46 No, I just kind of feel like,

02:02:48 and I know it was different from my older siblings

02:02:51 because my parents had just shown up in Canada.

02:02:54 I was born like 10 years later.

02:02:58 You can get away with some things and you can actually…

02:03:02 I think my parents, they wanted us to,

02:03:05 they didn’t have a whole lot to tell us about what to do.

02:03:10 They weren’t gonna do that with us

02:03:12 because they’re in this brand new world

02:03:14 and there’s all these possibilities.

02:03:17 But there was something that I feel like they had to do,

02:03:23 which was tell us to do what we love.

02:03:25 If you love doing it, do it.

02:03:28 And I feel like that’s really served me

02:03:31 and what I would tell young people is

02:03:33 if you can find something you love,

02:03:35 and nowadays with the internet and finding other people,

02:03:38 that it’s not like you need to find a lot of people anymore.

02:03:43 You just need to find the people that dig what you dig.

02:03:45 And if you can make a career out of doing something

02:03:49 that you love that’s been said, it’s a good thing.

02:03:54 How long did it take you to figure out

02:03:56 that you really love acting?

02:04:00 Because sometimes you have a dream

02:04:02 and the dream meets reality, right?

02:04:05 And then the reality might be much less pleasant

02:04:07 or much darker than the dream.

02:04:09 Well, the reality is less pleasant, you know?

02:04:12 And there are things that happen during an experience

02:04:16 of shooting something that you could take or leave, right?

02:04:19 But the part where you’re on set

02:04:23 and you’ve rehearsed for a minute or whatever,

02:04:27 at least you know where you’re supposed to stand

02:04:29 and you know all your lines show up,

02:04:30 knowing everything, knowing what you’re gonna do

02:04:33 and what you aim to do.

02:04:35 And those moments make it all worth it.

02:04:38 When you’re, not to sound like a douchebag,

02:04:41 but between action and cut, that’s the stuff

02:04:45 that has me continuing to do what I do,

02:04:52 aside from the fact that it’s like,

02:04:54 I don’t know how to do anything else.

02:04:56 You think you’ll ever do like a dramatic, like a mob movie?

02:05:00 Yeah, like the one, the inside game

02:05:02 that I was just talking about,

02:05:03 or there’s this other movie I just did a little while ago

02:05:05 called American Woman that was very heavy.

02:05:08 And I love doing dramatic work.

02:05:10 I love it, I love it.

02:05:12 Yeah, and I played that inside game.

02:05:15 It was kind of a, you know, there was a mob element

02:05:18 and the fellow was, well, you know,

02:05:21 the story’s here or there with regard to how deep into the,

02:05:26 but well, he was a bookie.

02:05:27 He was just running money, you know,

02:05:29 he was making a lot of money for a lot of people

02:05:31 and he figured out how to, you know,

02:05:33 cook it with this dude who was an NBA ref

02:05:37 and it’s a very interesting documentary,

02:05:40 the thing that they just untold,

02:05:42 under the untold series, they cover it.

02:05:45 But getting to play that guy, that was a gas for me

02:05:50 because he’s like a, you know,

02:05:52 there was a lot of unsavory stuff

02:05:54 and he’s definitely the guy, the character in the movie

02:05:57 who is the wild card and you don’t wanna

02:06:00 necessarily mess with him.

02:06:02 And I got to, by the way, this fellow,

02:06:04 who is the real guy, speaking to him,

02:06:07 it was just bizarre to hear, like I said to him,

02:06:12 he was a little concerned about this and that,

02:06:14 like, hey, you know, you say whatever the fuck you want

02:06:16 in your movie, I got my book and I got this other

02:06:18 fucking deal, but he goes, you know,

02:06:20 I didn’t do this and I didn’t do that.

02:06:22 And I’m like, yeah, all right, I got you.

02:06:23 And he goes, yeah, I’m telling you,

02:06:25 like I’m talking to you one on one,

02:06:26 I did not do this, I did, okay?

02:06:28 I’m just fucking telling you, do whatever the fuck

02:06:30 you want with your movie, but this is what’s up.

02:06:32 And I said, you ever seen Goodfellas?

02:06:33 He’s like, yeah, I fucking love that movie.

02:06:35 Cause he, like I said, he did some unsavory shit.

02:06:38 And I go, you remember the scene where,

02:06:41 where, you know, the guy, the neighbor,

02:06:43 Lorraine Bracco’s neighbor was, you know,

02:06:46 made her uncomfortable and was touching on her

02:06:48 and she goes to Ray Liotta and he goes,

02:06:50 where the fuck does this guy live?

02:06:52 And then he go, and remember, he walks across the street

02:06:54 and pistol whips the dude.

02:06:56 You touch her again, you’re dead, you hear me?

02:06:59 Don’t you fucking great scene.

02:07:01 He goes, I love that scene.

02:07:03 I go, that’s you.

02:07:04 So you’re doing shit that we know is terrible,

02:07:07 but we love you.

02:07:08 He goes, all right, I got it.

02:07:09 And then I said, there’s this one scene,

02:07:11 I explained the scene to him where the,

02:07:13 one of the mobsters, tough guys was in the window

02:07:17 of the car and Jimmy, my character is very coked up

02:07:21 at the time and he’s hemorrhaging money here and there

02:07:23 and making bad bets cause he’s getting sloppy.

02:07:25 And this guy wants to bug him about some Jets Giants bet

02:07:28 or something and I’m like, telling you fucking asshole,

02:07:30 don’t fucking do it.

02:07:31 He’s like, yeah, well, the fucking Giants.

02:07:33 And in the scene, Jimmy, my character grabs him

02:07:36 by the lapels and just smashes his face

02:07:39 against the roof of the car.

02:07:41 And I say this to Jimmy and he goes,

02:07:45 oh yeah, I would have done that.

02:07:46 That’s not a fucking big deal.

02:07:48 I wonder also the interaction.

02:07:50 I wonder what the filming of,

02:07:51 probably my favorite gambling movie is Casino

02:07:56 with Joe Pesci and De Niro.

02:07:59 Like when they’re out in the desert,

02:08:00 you’re yelling at each other.

02:08:01 I wonder how many takes that is.

02:08:03 Like, cause they, I don’t know how scripted that is.

02:08:07 I mean, it probably is a little bit,

02:08:08 but like, I don’t think you can script the performance

02:08:13 that Joe Pesci does.

02:08:14 Don’t make a fuck out of me, Ace.

02:08:16 Yeah.

02:08:17 Like, I fucking brought you here.

02:08:19 Yeah, he’s just like pointing at that energy

02:08:24 and they’re standing there.

02:08:25 And their friendship.

02:08:26 And then De Niro’s like that whole thing.

02:08:29 And then in the pet, yeah, like that energy.

02:08:33 What is that?

02:08:33 I mean, they must, they somehow find it together.

02:08:37 You could tell me that that was one take

02:08:39 and I’d believe you.

02:08:39 You could tell me that that was seven takes

02:08:42 and I would believe you.

02:08:43 I bet you all the takes had that energy.

02:08:45 Like they were playing with it, right?

02:08:46 They were playing with that, this, yeah.

02:08:50 I mean, they took on a real personality in those scenes

02:08:55 and really carried them forward.

02:08:57 I mean, it’s just a brilliant, brilliant performance.

02:08:58 Doesn’t get, like comedies, like mob movies

02:09:01 probably don’t get enough credit either

02:09:04 because it’s seen as like.

02:09:05 Mob movies don’t get enough credit?

02:09:06 What do you mean?

02:09:07 In the Oscars, I mean like that.

02:09:08 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:09:09 Cause it seems like a trope.

02:09:11 It’s like given a Western,

02:09:12 it’s gotta be a hell of a Western or whatever

02:09:14 cause it’s like an old Hollywood trope.

02:09:17 Yeah, no, I, that scene is so great

02:09:19 cause they’re never at,

02:09:20 they’re at the height of their friendship in a way

02:09:24 and they’re also pretty much about to let go of it

02:09:27 and become enemies.

02:09:28 And both things are happening at the same time.

02:09:31 And Pesci drives them out to the desert.

02:09:33 And if I remember correctly,

02:09:35 the Nero’s character, Ace Rothstein, Rothschild,

02:09:39 he says, I gave myself 50 50, whether I’m coming back.

02:09:43 Yeah, it’s such a good scene.

02:09:45 It was a, usually my prospects of coming back

02:09:48 from the desert would be 90 to 10 or something like that.

02:09:51 But now it was, this time I wasn’t sure

02:09:54 and there’s the car driving really fast.

02:09:56 And then Joe Pesci is like, you mother fucker, you,

02:09:58 like whatever he was doing.

02:10:00 Yeah.

02:10:00 A Jew, of course it’s anti Semitism.

02:10:02 Yeah.

02:10:03 We’re not between friends, who gives a shit?

02:10:07 All that kind of stuff.

02:10:08 Yeah, I mean, brilliant, brilliant performances.

02:10:10 So yeah, I can understand why you love the art

02:10:12 and putting it all out there and leave it.

02:10:15 Yeah, it’s fun.

02:10:15 It’s fun.

02:10:16 And it’s still fun.

02:10:17 It’s still crazy fun.

02:10:19 If I go a while without getting a gig,

02:10:23 if I go a minute, then I end up and I work on something,

02:10:27 I’m like, it’s like, oh, I’ve been thirsty for this.

02:10:32 Like I actually am really so happy.

02:10:36 Even if it’s something where it’s like,

02:10:40 the things where this was a pain in the ass

02:10:42 and that or whatever, you’re on the road doing something

02:10:44 and anything, whatever, you lost your luggage

02:10:46 or whatever the heck you’ve got going on

02:10:48 in your day to day life that everyone brings to work

02:10:52 and tries to let go of.

02:10:54 Once we’re doing the scene, oh man, it’s the best.

02:10:57 But that said, you’re a great actor,

02:11:01 but I just think I speak for a lot of people

02:11:03 that you’re also, there’s a charisma to you

02:11:06 that’s great to reveal in raw form in different podcasts.

02:11:10 Oh, cheers man.

02:11:11 In DudeZ, 10 Minute Pod, just as a guest in podcasts,

02:11:14 it’s always really fun to watch you.

02:11:17 Cheers.

02:11:17 The way you have fun, the way you think.

02:11:20 The raw, the raw will sassle,

02:11:22 which is a nice compliment to your kind of acting.

02:11:25 That’s really sweet.

02:11:26 Yeah, cheers.

02:11:27 Well, you know, look, you said, you know.

02:11:32 You’re making that face.

02:11:33 I’m making that face.

02:11:34 I’m making that after the take face.

02:11:35 No, I love doing stuff off the cuff.

02:11:38 That’s kind of you to say.

02:11:39 And I dig, I really do dig doing stuff

02:11:42 in front of an audience,

02:11:43 because I love seeing,

02:11:46 I don’t give it to myself very often.

02:11:48 If I’m doing, even if I’m, you know,

02:11:50 I’ve done a bunch of multi camera sitcoms and stuff.

02:11:52 Mad TV was shot in front of a live studio audience.

02:11:55 You like that energy?

02:11:56 I love it, but I can only hear them.

02:11:58 You can’t see them because of the lights

02:12:00 like it is in a lot of performances.

02:12:02 And I would imagine with standup, it’s, you know,

02:12:06 you see the first couple of rows.

02:12:08 I’ve done, I do this character that does stand up

02:12:11 and I used to take him out and do things with him

02:12:14 and do little bits here and there.

02:12:16 I haven’t done it in like four or five years.

02:12:18 I think, did Bobby say that character opened up for Bobby?

02:12:21 Yeah, but he said, I have to do it as myself too.

02:12:25 I think in that podcast, he’s like,

02:12:26 okay, you’re gonna come with me and open for me in Brea,

02:12:29 but you have to do it as yourself.

02:12:31 Did that ever happen?

02:12:32 It did.

02:12:33 And I did the character, you know,

02:12:36 who’s the character I came up with on 10 Minute Podcast.

02:12:39 He’s just this comedian, right?

02:12:40 He calls himself an open mic veteran.

02:12:42 You know, he’s been doing open mics forever.

02:12:44 And so I did it at opening up for Bobby

02:12:48 and he’s like, you have to do some of it as yourself.

02:12:50 So I just kind of did this bit

02:12:52 where I would do some of his jokes

02:12:53 and then I would take Lee Leon, silly,

02:12:56 I got a fucking wig on and I take the wig off and I go,

02:12:59 and as myself, I start explaining it.

02:13:01 Hello, my name is Will.

02:13:02 See, the reason that it’s funny

02:13:04 is because Arnold Schwarzenegger is always,

02:13:08 he’s in these movies

02:13:09 and he’s got the thick Austrian accent,

02:13:11 but he’s like, my name is Ben Williams.

02:13:13 I’m a cop from Colorado.

02:13:15 No, you’re not.

02:13:17 And it doesn’t make sense as the comedian character

02:13:19 that I’m doing because that character

02:13:21 doesn’t do impersonations.

02:13:23 Okay, carrying on.

02:13:24 And then I put the wig back on

02:13:25 and go back into this dumb thing.

02:13:28 And I don’t think it was very good,

02:13:29 but Bobby required it in order for me to open for him.

02:13:32 He’s like, you’re not fucking doing it.

02:13:34 So I’m not gonna get up on stage and not do,

02:13:36 we agreed, I’ll do it.

02:13:38 But having been up there just in, you know, whatever,

02:13:42 I’ve done it like a dozen fucking times or whatever,

02:13:44 not a bunch of times, right?

02:13:45 Like nothing.

02:13:47 And you know, these comedians that go up every night,

02:13:49 sometimes two times a night.

02:13:51 It’s, I do, I will say,

02:13:54 I love performing in front of people when I get the chance,

02:13:59 but it’s a specific thing that I just, I don’t know.

02:14:06 I gotta go back to this.

02:14:07 It’s like the providing value, you know?

02:14:10 I think great standups are fucking incredible.

02:14:13 I’ll go, you know, when I’ve gone and watched standup,

02:14:17 you know, there’s your friend you’re going to see,

02:14:19 but then there’s this other person who really speaks to you.

02:14:21 You know what I mean?

02:14:22 And if you like one comedian a night, that’s a lot.

02:14:27 Cause a comedy club is like a fucking crazy restaurant

02:14:34 where there’s no menu.

02:14:36 And it’s like, what would you like?

02:14:38 There’s nothing else like that.

02:14:39 There’s like, you don’t go to like a music place.

02:14:42 What do we got here?

02:14:43 We got Christian metal and there’s some world music

02:14:45 and then there’s a reggae thing

02:14:47 and it’s all rammed in together.

02:14:50 Or you don’t go to a restaurant.

02:14:52 I’d love a nice steak.

02:14:53 Cool.

02:14:54 First, here’s a bowl of Froot Loops.

02:14:55 And then we got you a crudite.

02:14:57 And then this is our sushi tower.

02:15:00 Well, what about the steak?

02:15:00 Oh, the steak’s coming.

02:15:02 And then blah, blah, blah.

02:15:03 Oh no, the steak got bumped.

02:15:04 So there’s no steak,

02:15:05 but here’s a fucking shitty store bought cheesecake.

02:15:07 Yeah.

02:15:08 You know, and that’s what comedians are up against

02:15:12 when they go into a place and it’s like,

02:15:13 I don’t pair well with the poached salmon.

02:15:16 You know, I’m chicken fingers.

02:15:17 I already am chicken fingers.

02:15:20 So, you know, these great comedians that are able to go up

02:15:23 on a night where poached salmon goes up

02:15:26 and then it’s like, fuck, you were also spicy?

02:15:28 I got some kick to me.

02:15:30 For me, even going to open mics,

02:15:33 it could be a wonderful escape.

02:15:36 Yeah.

02:15:36 I mean, just laughing together with others.

02:15:40 It could make you, I don’t know,

02:15:41 it just feels really good.

02:15:42 Well, and we’ve done like, you know,

02:15:43 like, and I hope to do it with Doodsy,

02:15:46 but like live podcasts are fun in front of groups of people.

02:15:50 And you know, you talk to them afterwards

02:15:52 and take some pictures and man, they are,

02:15:54 they forgot what the fuck they got going on.

02:15:57 And a lot of them got to go back to work the next day.

02:15:59 It’s a Wednesday or Thursday, you know?

02:16:01 No, it’s a lot of value.

02:16:03 I’m fortunate enough to be busy doing my own bullshit.

02:16:07 What’s the meaning of life with Sasa?

02:16:11 What is the meaning of life?

02:16:12 Why are we here?

02:16:13 Why, why, why?

02:16:14 Was it the meaning of life?

02:16:16 Wasn’t, didn’t they explain it

02:16:18 at the end of meaning of life?

02:16:19 I think it was Michael Palin that said,

02:16:21 try to get a walk in, be nice to neighbors,

02:16:24 eat enough fiber.

02:16:25 Wasn’t that the?

02:16:26 Fiber? Fiber is part of it?

02:16:27 Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s just,

02:16:29 have a bowl of bran in the morning

02:16:31 and don’t take yourself too seriously.

02:16:35 Yeah.

02:16:36 No, well, no one gets out alive, I think is the.

02:16:38 Herman Hesse, one of my favorite writers,

02:16:39 he’s a Nobel Prize winner,

02:16:41 in a book called Steppenwolf,

02:16:44 says, learn what is to be taken seriously

02:16:47 and laugh at the rest.

02:16:48 Oh, that’s awesome.

02:16:49 What’s the percentage distribution on that?

02:16:51 So how much of life should you take seriously?

02:16:54 And then how much do you just laugh at?

02:16:57 Oh man, if you can laugh at everything, you’re winning.

02:17:00 Yeah.

02:17:01 But that’s almost impossible.

02:17:03 I think that there’s,

02:17:05 and also could be quite irresponsible to do that.

02:17:09 I take things, I take a lot of things way too seriously.

02:17:13 I know that.

02:17:15 I do, I do, I really do.

02:17:17 People will be in part surprised by that,

02:17:19 but I think that radiates from you.

02:17:21 Really?

02:17:22 Yeah, I do, I do.

02:17:23 I take things way too fucking seriously sometimes.

02:17:25 But, yeah, they’re gonna loosen the neck up.

02:17:29 But no, I think that’s really good.

02:17:32 That’s really good stuff.

02:17:34 I don’t know what the percentage is to have a good life

02:17:37 or a happy, healthy life, but you know,

02:17:43 for me, the meaning of life is getting to live it

02:17:46 as long as you hope to.

02:17:48 That’s nice, and when you lose someone

02:17:53 or if perhaps you’re faced with your own mortality,

02:17:57 I think that puts that into perspective.

02:18:02 But, you know.

02:18:04 Get lots of fiber.

02:18:05 Get lots of fiber, be nice to everybody,

02:18:09 and yeah, don’t take things too seriously is a good one.

02:18:13 Our minds are fucking big weird shitty fucking bucket of shit

02:18:22 that’s trying to get you to think horrible shit

02:18:24 about yourself all the time.

02:18:26 Yeah, shitty bucket of shit.

02:18:27 Shitty bucket of shit.

02:18:28 I think there’s a book I never read,

02:18:29 but I read the title, and it’s Good Words to Live By,

02:18:32 which is don’t sweat the small stuff,

02:18:35 and it’s all small stuff.

02:18:37 That’s another way.

02:18:38 Was that Dr. Phil?

02:18:39 Wasn’t Dr. Phil what’s?

02:18:41 I don’t know.

02:18:42 But I think the conclusion also has fiber as part of it.

02:18:46 I think that all ties it together,

02:18:48 and in the end, of course,

02:18:50 just put love out there in the world.

02:18:54 I think that’s a pretty good way to go.

02:18:56 What would you say is the meaning of life?

02:18:58 Put love out in the world?

02:18:59 I would say love, yeah.

02:19:00 Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

02:19:02 It’s a long conversation on what that really means,

02:19:05 but I’m sure robots are involved, yeah.

02:19:08 Well, let me tell you, I feel a little safer knowing

02:19:11 that someone who has a hand in bringing these robots

02:19:16 to the masses, as you do,

02:19:19 has that opinion of love and how important it is.

02:19:22 I think that’s great, because otherwise,

02:19:25 it’s gonna be that fucking scene from T2

02:19:27 where Linda Hamilton’s holding onto the fence

02:19:31 and getting all of her flesh blown off of her skeleton

02:19:35 before the rest of her is wiped away,

02:19:37 because this Skynet shit.

02:19:39 Anyway, I’m just terrified of dudesie all the time.

02:19:41 That’s why I think that they will.

02:19:42 Dudesie in the wrong hands can do a lot of damage.

02:19:45 That’s why Chad and I need to do our best to control it.

02:19:49 You need to travel back in time and murder Chad, I think.

02:19:53 Yeah, that’s, yeah.

02:19:55 That’s the only way.

02:19:56 It’s been said.

02:19:57 I don’t know why you need to travel back in time,

02:19:58 but you could murder him today,

02:20:02 but I think he’ll be very suspicious.

02:20:04 My nefarious plans for Chad involve going back to tomorrow

02:20:08 and planning for yesterday, and then,

02:20:10 and hopefully dudesie will give me the answer there

02:20:12 with what it is to do with Chad’s frozen body.

02:20:15 If I got to drive it out to, if I got to take my,

02:20:18 you know, if I got to get ahold of it,

02:20:20 like one of those Tesla mom vans

02:20:23 and shove my garage freezer in it and plug it in

02:20:27 and shove Chad in there, drive out to Arizona

02:20:29 and deliver him under a mountain

02:20:31 or wherever the fuck this place is,

02:20:33 and say, here’s this dog tag, what does this get me?

02:20:36 And then I’m like, ah, it’s gonna be 300 bucks.

02:20:38 Do you have a, do you take Amex?

02:20:40 No.

02:20:41 And I’m gonna be like, ah, shit.

02:20:43 And then I’ll just dump him somewhere, breaking bad stuff.

02:20:47 Well, I would like to thank you and the, what is it?

02:20:50 The Canadian International Agency Apparel.

02:20:55 Canadian International Apparel.

02:20:56 I can’t wait for the sneakers from dudesie.

02:20:59 I can’t wait for all the, all the podcasts

02:21:03 that AI can, and all the trouble it can get you in.

02:21:07 So I’m a huge fan of yours.

02:21:09 It’s a huge honor that you would talk with me today.

02:21:11 Well, this has been amazing.

02:21:13 Cheers, pal.

02:21:14 Likewise, and I’m happy to be here, man.

02:21:15 Cheers.

02:21:16 Bam.

02:21:17 Oh, that was four, dude.

02:21:19 Holy fuck, what?

02:21:21 Thanks for listening to this conversation with Will Sasso.

02:21:24 To support this podcast,

02:21:26 please check out our sponsors in the description.

02:21:28 And now, let me leave you with some words from John Candy,

02:21:32 one of Will’s favorite actors.

02:21:35 I think I may have become an actor to hide from myself.

02:21:39 You can escape into a character.

02:21:42 Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.