Transcript
00:00:00 Talking about an exciting thing for an engineer,
00:00:03 the same Snapdragon that goes to a phone
00:00:05 and it can go to a Galaxy phone, for example, Samsung,
00:00:08 the same, not a special one, went all the way to Mars.
00:00:12 You expect to have a full day of battery life,
00:00:17 but then you want it to not be sending data
00:00:20 into 10 or 100 megabits.
00:00:23 You want gigabits.
00:00:24 You want it to be able to have eight core processors.
00:00:28 You want to have a GPU with ray tracing.
00:00:30 You want to have all of those things
00:00:32 that you can only get into sometimes a desktop PC.
00:00:37 To do all of that in your phone is an incredible thing.
00:00:41 Some people raise concerns about there not being enough
00:00:44 studies about the effects of 5G on the human body.
00:00:47 Is 5G safe?
00:00:51 The following is a conversation with Cristiano Aman,
00:00:55 the CEO of Qualcomm.
00:00:57 The company that’s one of the leaders in the world
00:00:59 in the space of mobile communication and computation.
00:01:03 That’s 2G, 3G, 4G, and 5G that connects billions of phones,
00:01:08 and the Snapdragon processor and system on a chip
00:01:12 that is the brain of most of the premium Android phones
00:01:15 in the world.
00:01:16 This is the Lex Friedman podcast.
00:01:18 To support it, please check out our sponsors
00:01:20 in the description.
00:01:21 And now, dear friends, here’s Cristiano Aman.
00:01:25 You are originally from Brazil,
00:01:28 so let me ask the most important question,
00:01:31 the most profound question, the biggest question.
00:01:33 Who’s the greatest football soccer player of all time?
00:01:36 Look, everybody’s gonna say Pele,
00:01:38 and actually I was born during the game
00:01:42 of Brazil and Italy that Pele gave Brazil the championship.
00:01:47 Actually it was, my dad tells me that the doctor
00:01:52 had a TV on at the delivery room.
00:01:54 But, so everybody will say Pele,
00:01:56 but I really like Ronaldo.
00:01:58 The first, not Ronaldinho, the first Ronaldo.
00:02:01 I really like him.
00:02:02 That’s my favorite player.
00:02:04 By the way, not everybody would say Pele.
00:02:07 But we shall leave that on the table
00:02:09 and agree to disagree.
00:02:11 Brazilians will say Pele.
00:02:12 Yes.
00:02:14 There’s other countries around that region
00:02:17 that may disagree a little bit.
00:02:19 I’m very aware.
00:02:19 Qualcomm is largely responsible for 5G
00:02:25 and some of the greatest processors
00:02:28 in our smartphones ever built.
00:02:29 So we got communication and computation tech
00:02:33 that impacts probably billions of people.
00:02:36 So if you zoom out, you as a human,
00:02:39 we’ll look at humans on Earth in general,
00:02:42 does it blow your mind that we have these billions
00:02:47 of smartphones communicating and each of them
00:02:50 have the computational power?
00:02:53 You know, you talk about 10 billion transistors.
00:02:56 That’s a million times more than 50 years ago
00:02:59 in the best computers in the world.
00:03:01 Like if you just zoom out as a human,
00:03:05 does that blow your mind?
00:03:06 Absolutely.
00:03:07 Look, one of the reasons I think I love this company
00:03:10 is we know that the technology we develop
00:03:13 can change the world.
00:03:14 And I’ll tell you one more thing.
00:03:15 Beyond the amount of processing power
00:03:18 that you have now in the palm of your hands
00:03:20 and being every one of the world is connected
00:03:22 with broadband technology,
00:03:24 the smartphone is also mankind largest development platform.
00:03:28 There’s nothing like it.
00:03:29 So you respect both the hardware and the software?
00:03:31 Both.
00:03:33 Both.
00:03:33 If aliens were observing Earth over the past 50 to 70 years,
00:03:36 how do you think they would describe
00:03:38 this particular turmoil, fun things going on
00:03:43 on the surface of this particular little planet?
00:03:47 We live in interesting times.
00:03:50 In one time, we see incredible development of technology
00:03:55 for mankind just what happened in the last century.
00:03:59 You know, from 1900 to 2000, it was incredible development.
00:04:04 Just look, 2000 was 22 years ago,
00:04:07 how far we’re coming and where we’re going with technology.
00:04:10 It’s incredible.
00:04:11 What do you think they would notice?
00:04:13 So there’s road networks, there’s all kinds of networks.
00:04:16 There’s lights that keep popping up,
00:04:19 cities springing up, like from an alien perspective,
00:04:21 you’re observing.
00:04:22 Well, what I’m gonna tell you is you have this contrast
00:04:24 of incredible development of technology,
00:04:27 but then you see some of the things
00:04:28 that are happening right now,
00:04:30 which is probably you would not expect them to happen
00:04:33 on the 21st century, just what happened in Ukraine.
00:04:36 So I think that will be a more puzzling question
00:04:40 for the aliens, I would imagine.
00:04:42 The new technology is kind of impressive.
00:04:44 Actually, that might not be so puzzling
00:04:46 because that’s just human nature revealing itself
00:04:49 as it has throughout human history.
00:04:50 That’s correct.
00:04:52 Let’s talk about wireless communication.
00:04:54 So Qualcomm was instrumental in developing 5G.
00:04:58 Now you were with Qualcomm since the early days,
00:05:01 the good old 90s with the 2G, but what is 5G,
00:05:05 including sub six gigahertz 5G and millimeter wave 5G?
00:05:10 How does it work?
00:05:10 And maybe the most important question is
00:05:13 how will it change the world in the coming years?
00:05:15 When we set ourselves to develop 5G,
00:05:18 and we look at this, every generation of technology
00:05:21 had a problem to be solved, right?
00:05:24 So you mentioned 2G, 2G challenge,
00:05:26 the challenge of CDMA was can we give every person
00:05:29 on earth a cell phone?
00:05:30 That was, can you get to a technology
00:05:33 that you can basically allow everyone
00:05:36 to have a mobile phone?
00:05:37 3G was about the ability to connect that to the internet.
00:05:41 I think 4G was broadband and with 4G was about
00:05:45 have the ability for you to have a computer
00:05:46 in the palm of your hand.
00:05:48 We’ll just talk about that.
00:05:49 5G, the challenge was a little bit different.
00:05:52 It’s how do we build a technology for a society
00:05:55 that is gonna be 100% connected to the cloud?
00:05:57 How do we provide a technology that is going to be
00:06:00 the last mile connectivity for everything?
00:06:04 So 5G has basically been designed,
00:06:07 eliminate all issues with data congestion,
00:06:10 whether you are in stadium, we talk about soccer,
00:06:14 you were in a stadium and everyone should be
00:06:16 ability to have access to broadband.
00:06:19 So deal with congestion.
00:06:20 Deal with the fact that not only people,
00:06:22 but billions of things need to be connected.
00:06:25 Create a technology that for the first time in wireless,
00:06:29 you could deliver mission critical services.
00:06:32 Wireless used to up to 4G is its best effort.
00:06:37 In 5G, it can guarantee that you are connected
00:06:40 with the cloud.
00:06:41 And then the last point of that is provide this fabric
00:06:47 that will allow us as a society to look at things
00:06:50 that are not connected and say, that’s the exception.
00:06:53 That’s why we made a comparison in the early days of 5G
00:06:57 that that’s gonna be like electricity.
00:06:58 Right now, you don’t have a discussion
00:07:00 about what is the use cases for electricity.
00:07:03 You don’t talk about that anymore.
00:07:04 You just assume it’s there.
00:07:05 And that’s how we think about everything
00:07:08 connected to the cloud.
00:07:09 That’s what 5G is and that’s the role of 5G.
00:07:13 So first of all, everything connected to the cloud
00:07:15 is interesting because the space of everything
00:07:17 is constantly increasing.
00:07:19 That is correct.
00:07:20 I don’t think the refrigerator over there,
00:07:22 it looks kind of smart,
00:07:23 but I don’t think it’s connected yet to the cloud.
00:07:27 So this includes internet of things.
00:07:29 What is the full space of everything?
00:07:31 The full space of everything is,
00:07:33 it’s maybe going back to where you start defining Qualcomm.
00:07:38 Qualcomm is about communications and advanced computers
00:07:41 for low power devices.
00:07:43 And can we make everything smart?
00:07:46 It can range from the robot you have right now on the floor
00:07:51 to your refrigerator, to a camera,
00:07:54 to machines in manufacturing,
00:08:00 to retail, et cetera.
00:08:03 I can give you some examples.
00:08:05 When we think of something as simple
00:08:08 as going to the grocery shop,
00:08:11 we see technology now with something,
00:08:14 the stuff we’ve been working with companies like Walmart.
00:08:17 Electronic shelf labels.
00:08:19 The ability for you to have smart cameras,
00:08:21 they can look at shelves and the camera is smart enough
00:08:24 to say some product needs to be replenished.
00:08:27 Ability to see what’s trashed.
00:08:28 So it’s about really providing processor connectivity,
00:08:32 artificial intelligence to everything.
00:08:35 And I think that’s one of the largest addressable markets
00:08:40 we have for technology
00:08:41 because you can’t really define everything.
00:08:43 Right, exactly.
00:08:44 It’s a nice market
00:08:45 because it keeps growing potentially exponentially in speed.
00:08:49 What about coverage?
00:08:51 So how are we doing on the everything part?
00:08:53 So there is, like I mentioned, sub six gigahertz 5G
00:08:57 and there’s a millimeter wave 5G.
00:09:00 So not all 5G is made the same.
00:09:02 So there’s a speed, there’s a bandwidth thing.
00:09:05 And then there’s coverage.
00:09:06 How many people get to enjoy today
00:09:10 and how does the progress in the next five, 10, 20, 30,
00:09:13 50 years you think looks like in terms of coverage?
00:09:15 Great topic of conversation.
00:09:17 So let’s talk about this.
00:09:19 When I meet with regulators across the globe,
00:09:23 I tell them resistance is futile.
00:09:26 Allocate every spectrum to wireless.
00:09:29 Every spectrum needs to be allocated to wireless.
00:09:31 The reality is when we start moving from CDMA to OFDMA,
00:09:37 we knew that this industry has done a lot
00:09:41 to get more bits per Hertz.
00:09:44 But the reality is the massive amount of improvements
00:09:49 that is required in capacity and in speed,
00:09:53 you need more spectrum.
00:09:55 There’s not so much we can rely on more bits per Hertz.
00:10:00 You just need more spectrum.
00:10:01 And if you look, for example,
00:10:04 what carriers since the 2G era,
00:10:07 they participate in different license and auctions
00:10:10 and every spectrum they accumulated from 2G or 3G or 4G,
00:10:15 all of that, you may be able to get one or two channels max
00:10:20 of sub six, which is a channel is about 100 megahertz
00:10:24 or 200 megahertz, and that’s it.
00:10:26 So we need more spectrum.
00:10:28 So 5G has been designed to work across every spectrum
00:10:32 from the low frequency bands, that’s what we call the sub six,
00:10:36 but you needed more, you needed to go to the millimeter wave.
00:10:40 So that’s why 5G is a technology that you can deploy
00:10:43 from 450 megahertz as an example, or 600 or 700,
00:10:48 all the way to in the 42 gigahertz.
00:10:54 And that’s where millimeter wave comes into the picture.
00:10:57 Now, let’s now connect this to your question
00:11:00 about coverage of 5G.
00:11:03 The easiest thing to do is to deploy 5G
00:11:08 in the new spectrum you can get,
00:11:10 which is in the sub six, you see bands being auctioned
00:11:14 across the globe into 3.5 gigahertz.
00:11:17 There’s nothing special about the band,
00:11:18 it’s just the only one that was available
00:11:20 because everything else has been useful for 4G.
00:11:22 And you can deploy on that, go into existing cell towers
00:11:26 and just put a new equipment
00:11:27 without having to build new towers.
00:11:29 But when we go to technologies such as millimeter wave,
00:11:32 then you have to build more dense networks.
00:11:35 You need to build more stations
00:11:37 because a deployment in that case
00:11:38 look like a wifi deployment,
00:11:40 it’s almost like wifi access points.
00:11:42 When you need to build more stations, you need permits,
00:11:45 you need to build fiber, so it takes more time to densify.
00:11:50 So what you see happening is coverage has been built fast
00:11:54 with sub six across the globe,
00:11:56 but now the United States also have the sub six.
00:11:59 So that gets you to coverage very fast.
00:12:02 But millimeter wave, it’s moving.
00:12:05 And if I will say, for example, Verizon,
00:12:08 United States has had a leadership
00:12:11 in building millimeter wave, it takes time.
00:12:13 I’ll say cities like Chicago, Manhattan
00:12:17 starting to get coverage.
00:12:18 It will be a process over a number of years
00:12:21 as you build those different access points type networks,
00:12:26 but it’s inevitable.
00:12:28 There’s not enough spectrum.
00:12:30 So every 5G operators just a matter of time
00:12:33 will have millimeter wave as well.
00:12:35 Resistance is futile.
00:12:36 Okay, so for millimeter wave,
00:12:39 we need density of access points.
00:12:42 And what’s the biggest resistance for Qualcomm
00:12:47 for human civilization?
00:12:49 Is it politicians, regulators, federal regulators?
00:12:54 Is it individual humans?
00:12:57 Is it not enough money from the consumer perspective?
00:13:00 Like who is the biggest pain in the butt?
00:13:03 From a Qualcomm standpoint, but answering the question
00:13:05 about what it takes to build all this technology.
00:13:09 I think regulators across the board
00:13:11 understood the importance of 5G.
00:13:13 I have not met a regulator that said,
00:13:15 it’s really important to be late on 5G.
00:13:18 I don’t think anybody wants to be late on 5G.
00:13:20 And as a result, we’ve seen enormous amount of progress
00:13:22 in getting spectrum allocated to 5G.
00:13:26 I think the real issue is the time that it takes
00:13:29 to build infrastructure.
00:13:31 You know, investment in 5G infrastructure,
00:13:34 special millimeter wave is like building roads and ports.
00:13:37 It’s critical infrastructure.
00:13:38 And those things take time.
00:13:40 Like one of the number one obstacle
00:13:41 you’re gonna hear from operators is site permit.
00:13:45 You know, sometimes they have to negotiate municipality
00:13:47 by municipality about permits to get new cell sites.
00:13:51 But you know, the networks will be densified
00:13:54 and you’re gonna need all of that capacity
00:13:56 for the promise of the fully immersive augmented reality
00:14:01 that will replace phones and everything being connected
00:14:03 100% of the time.
00:14:05 This would not be a conversation with the CEO
00:14:07 if I did not ask questions that make you nervous.
00:14:12 Some people raise concerns about there not being enough
00:14:15 studies about the effects of 5G on the human body.
00:14:19 Is 5G safe?
00:14:21 Look, I have a very simple answer to this question.
00:14:26 As we build new capabilities, such as 5G,
00:14:31 power is going down, especially when you think
00:14:34 about reducing the number of base stations,
00:14:37 the network’s becoming more dense.
00:14:40 So as you do that, the power becomes lower.
00:14:45 If your phone radiated from the phone and from the tower,
00:14:49 as you get closer to the tower,
00:14:51 you don’t need that much power to reach the tower.
00:14:53 So as we move from 4G to 5G,
00:14:56 I think we see a reduction in the amount of power
00:15:00 is required to close the radio link.
00:15:02 Now, also you have a number of organizations,
00:15:05 the FCC, for example, has rigorous programs,
00:15:09 which they do a lot of tests to validate, you know,
00:15:14 the safety of those devices.
00:15:16 And I think we have, has been a model for other countries
00:15:20 to also to adopt the same things.
00:15:24 Cellular has been around for a number of decades now.
00:15:27 I think smartphone is our most beloved device today.
00:15:32 And I would argue how it’s difficult
00:15:35 to answer those questions,
00:15:37 but I’ll argue that the data to date
00:15:41 have we seen in 3G and 4G, you know,
00:15:45 has shown that a lot of the initial concerns
00:15:53 were not valid.
00:15:55 We look at 5G, even though it’s new, it’s just less power.
00:15:58 So we look at it from a physics standpoint.
00:16:01 So from a physics, from a biology perspective,
00:16:05 there’s a lot of evidence, there’s studies
00:16:08 that show that it’s not dangerous, that it is in fact safe.
00:16:13 However, the concern that people have
00:16:14 is when you scale technology exponentially,
00:16:18 how will that change human civilization?
00:16:20 I mean, that doesn’t apply to 5G,
00:16:22 that applies to every technology.
00:16:23 How, you said smartphone is the most beloved device,
00:16:27 but love sometimes hurts.
00:16:29 That’s the impact on society we don’t know.
00:16:33 And there’s a little bit of fear,
00:16:34 there’s both excitement and fear.
00:16:36 It’s a great topic of conversation actually.
00:16:39 So let me give you my perspective on this.
00:16:41 And you started to see some things
00:16:42 actually happening right now.
00:16:43 So let me step back and let’s talk about the fact
00:16:47 that we are in a fully interconnected society.
00:16:51 That when you look of the situation today,
00:16:56 we talk about smartphones, largest development platform,
00:17:01 so much now of our life, we are connected to the smartphone.
00:17:08 And we are all connected and we’re connected.
00:17:11 And then we’re building digital twins of everything, right?
00:17:15 So when you look at that picture,
00:17:17 when you look at the picture of this connected society,
00:17:21 you started to have the following thoughts,
00:17:25 which I think are very healthy,
00:17:26 which means in the same way that in the physical world,
00:17:30 you’re entitled to some rights, you have obligations,
00:17:33 and there’s a lot of things that protect your integrity.
00:17:38 I think as a rule, we’re gonna see the society evolving.
00:17:43 So those things extend to your digital being
00:17:47 of people and things.
00:17:49 And I think it’s just natural.
00:17:50 It’s just natural.
00:17:52 It’s just a natural path.
00:17:54 And you started to see things like that.
00:17:55 For example, the Europeans has done a lot in this area.
00:18:00 I’ll say the Europeans probably ahead in the United States
00:18:03 thinking about privacy laws, digital privacy laws.
00:18:06 Most recently, the DMA, the Digital Markets Act,
00:18:09 which I think is a great thing.
00:18:11 I think we believe there’s incredible thought
00:18:15 into enable ability to regulate the digital markets
00:18:19 so that there’s innovation and competitions
00:18:21 and not a single company can control all the data
00:18:24 and then decide how things are gonna be work
00:18:28 on the digital realm.
00:18:29 And even if we think about the potential things
00:18:32 like the metaverse,
00:18:32 as we’re connecting physical and digital spaces.
00:18:35 So I think it’s a natural evolution.
00:18:37 Of course, regulation and laws always follow technology.
00:18:43 But the fact that we’re moving
00:18:45 to an interconnected society, there’s no going back.
00:18:49 We are a fully interconnected society.
00:18:52 But there is opportunity to think about
00:18:55 how the digital twin should,
00:18:58 people and government should think about it
00:19:00 so that we get the best of a technology
00:19:03 without any downside.
00:19:05 Yeah, so when you say digital twin,
00:19:06 that’s one of the other things you’re excited about,
00:19:08 which is the metaverse,
00:19:09 or basically building worlds in the digital space.
00:19:13 And you have to start to think about
00:19:14 all the basic human rights that transfer
00:19:18 from our physical meat vehicles
00:19:20 out to the digital copies of ourselves,
00:19:22 representations of ourselves.
00:19:24 It’s really important to think about.
00:19:25 The thing you mentioned about regulators that has been,
00:19:27 this is me speaking frustrating,
00:19:29 is like you said, they follow technology.
00:19:32 So sometimes they don’t get the technology at all.
00:19:36 So they’re very clumsy in writing laws
00:19:40 that censor that technology in interesting ways.
00:19:43 They mean good, but they can do a lot of unintended damage.
00:19:47 Now, both, it’s a dance.
00:19:49 It’s a beautiful dance,
00:19:50 but I just wish governments were better dance partners.
00:19:54 I just see what they’re kind of writing now
00:19:55 about regulating social media and platforms like YouTube,
00:20:00 and it’s just really, really clumsy.
00:20:02 They don’t understand how machine learning works.
00:20:04 I recommend their systems work.
00:20:06 And I just wish they kind of caught up a little more
00:20:08 because it’s really important to be great at regulation,
00:20:12 but also it’s important to let companies flourish
00:20:15 and embrace this new wave of technology.
00:20:17 That weird dance, I am more and more learning
00:20:20 looking at public policy,
00:20:22 how much positive government can do
00:20:25 and how much clumsy negative it can do,
00:20:28 unintentionally, just out of sheer incompetence
00:20:31 or lack of curiosity about tech.
00:20:34 That’s my rant about regulators.
00:20:36 I think it’s a valid point.
00:20:39 As I said before, I think the Europeans
00:20:41 probably have a very good framework,
00:20:43 but the way I’ll think about it,
00:20:46 we depend on having the ability to innovate.
00:20:50 We depend on the free markets.
00:20:51 We depend on the ability to create technology
00:20:56 that will be disruptive.
00:20:59 But at the same time, I think the tech companies
00:21:01 probably should spend time helping governments understand,
00:21:04 helping understand ahead of time
00:21:06 so that they can be better prepared.
00:21:09 Let’s talk about one of my favorite topics, Snapdragon.
00:21:14 So Snapdragon is a system on a chip.
00:21:17 This processor has probably powered billions of smartphones
00:21:21 over its pretty long history now,
00:21:23 a decade and a half maybe.
00:21:26 So it’s constantly iterating.
00:21:27 There’s constantly just like a turmoil of beautiful
00:21:29 innovations happening.
00:21:30 So last year it was Snapdragon 888 was the main one
00:21:34 with the five nanometer,
00:21:35 and this year it’s Snapdragon 8Gen1.
00:21:40 It’s a new naming scheme.
00:21:41 Okay, what’s the sexiest, most beautiful idea
00:21:44 or concept to you about Snapdragon?
00:21:47 Start there.
00:21:47 The way I would describe it,
00:21:49 and I think the reason we have been successful with it,
00:21:53 is to really understand how to build a platform,
00:21:59 a single chip, like a single chip,
00:22:02 that will have every single capability
00:22:06 if you wanna make this smartphone
00:22:08 in the palm of your hand,
00:22:11 something that has all of your computing needs.
00:22:13 And it was the ability to get,
00:22:15 from an engineering standpoint,
00:22:17 ability to get into a single chip
00:22:20 of not only all possible connectivity technology,
00:22:24 from cellular to wifi to Bluetooth
00:22:26 to every single constellation of satellites
00:22:29 for position location.
00:22:31 But at the same time,
00:22:33 a very power efficient single thread and multi threaded CPU.
00:22:39 A GPU for all of your graphic demands,
00:22:44 gaming, fastest growing segment for gaming,
00:22:47 is mobile gaming.
00:22:50 An artificial intelligence processor,
00:22:52 which we call the neuro processor unit.
00:22:55 And then a video engine,
00:22:58 and a multimedia engine for every single application,
00:23:01 audio, everything.
00:23:03 So it’s a single chip
00:23:06 that has every single computing technology
00:23:09 you need in the phone.
00:23:10 And what’s exciting about it is what we already knew.
00:23:14 For example, when you think about camera or computer vision,
00:23:17 you see that the advancements in the technology
00:23:20 now happens in the smartphone first
00:23:25 versus additional camera.
00:23:26 So the beauty about the Snapdragon is
00:23:29 we always have this thing within Qualcomm.
00:23:33 The phone, it’s small.
00:23:35 You have to be able to hold it.
00:23:37 You’re gonna touch your face so you cannot be hot.
00:23:40 You have to manage thermals.
00:23:43 You expect to have a full day of battery life.
00:23:47 But then you want it to not be sending data
00:23:51 into 10 or 100 megabits.
00:23:53 You want gigabits.
00:23:55 You want it to be able to have eight core processors.
00:23:58 You want to have a GPU with ray tracing.
00:24:01 You want to have all of the things
00:24:03 that you can only get into sometimes a desktop PC.
00:24:08 And to do all of that in your phone
00:24:11 and be able to be in the leadership position
00:24:14 generation after generation is an incredible thing.
00:24:17 And we’re very proud of that at Qualcomm.
00:24:18 Yeah, so you have to do the WiFi, 5G, all of the…
00:24:22 And you have to be good to everyone of those technologies.
00:24:24 And pack it all in.
00:24:26 And there’s also pressure to make the thing
00:24:28 faster and faster and faster.
00:24:30 And then there’s more and more applications
00:24:32 you’re supposed to be effortlessly using.
00:24:34 And then you mentioned the NPU, GPU, CPU.
00:24:37 They have to also dance together somehow.
00:24:40 They have to communicate well, share memory or not,
00:24:42 depending on what the application is.
00:24:44 And your battery has to last all day.
00:24:48 So think about that.
00:24:49 From a company like Qualcomm, we have to be good
00:24:51 in each and every one of those technologies.
00:24:53 We can’t just say, oh, we’re a CPU company
00:24:55 or a GPU company or we’re AI company.
00:24:57 We have to do everything.
00:24:59 What does it take to design a great processor?
00:25:02 So design this system on a chip that you mentioned.
00:25:06 Is there some insight you can provide
00:25:08 in this chaos of engineers, designers, leaders,
00:25:15 the people that think about how much
00:25:16 this is all gonna cost, the whole mess of it?
00:25:19 I’m, of course, very partial about it.
00:25:21 I’ve been in this company for probably more than 26 years.
00:25:25 But I will argue that there are a couple things
00:25:28 that are ingredients for success.
00:25:31 So we talk about the fact that they have
00:25:33 all those different technologies.
00:25:34 They evolve at their own pace.
00:25:36 And you have to be good in each one of them.
00:25:38 And you need to then to make them working together.
00:25:41 So you need to have an engineering organization
00:25:44 that’s with an incredible collaboration culture
00:25:50 because everybody has to be working.
00:25:52 The train’s gonna leave the station.
00:25:54 Every cart needs to be there when it leaves the station.
00:25:57 It needs to leave on time,
00:25:58 especially in the phone business.
00:26:00 You can’t change Christmas.
00:26:02 You cannot change Black Friday.
00:26:04 You cannot change all of the selling seasons.
00:26:06 So the phones are gonna launch on time.
00:26:08 And every technology needs to be there.
00:26:10 The engineer needs to work as one.
00:26:12 And we do have that at Qualcomm.
00:26:14 The other thing, you have to have incredible discipline
00:26:18 because those are very complex systems.
00:26:22 So in one way, you have to design with quality
00:26:28 because in many cases, we’re gonna be ramping production.
00:26:32 And even before we have the silicon back
00:26:34 and you have to rely on our simulation models
00:26:38 and you have to rely on the fact
00:26:41 that you design for commercial applications.
00:26:45 That takes a while to build.
00:26:48 And it’s probably been the history
00:26:52 of a semiconductor business at Qualcomm.
00:26:54 So you mean like the framework
00:26:55 of how many people can use simulation software
00:26:57 and all that kind of stuff to build the thing
00:26:59 with a hard deadline that you might not even get back
00:27:02 from like manufacturer before.
00:27:06 You’re not allowed to have any mistakes.
00:27:08 No wonder our name is quality communications.
00:27:11 Oh, I never even thought about the qual part.
00:27:13 Quality.
00:27:14 So quality and there’s a bar that’s high
00:27:17 and you’re not allowed to mess up.
00:27:19 I mean, to me as an engineer, that’s exciting.
00:27:21 Hard deadlines, no room for mistakes.
00:27:25 I love it.
00:27:26 Super stressful, but I love it.
00:27:27 So there’s a couple of other small companies
00:27:33 called Google and Apple.
00:27:36 So Google is now using its own chip for the Pixel 6.
00:27:39 Apple using its own.
00:27:41 How does Qualcomm out compete Google and Apple?
00:27:45 How does it beat them?
00:27:46 We don’t have to out compete Google.
00:27:48 Actually, if you look at our mobile strategy today,
00:27:51 and then one thing I was very clear when I became CEO,
00:27:53 I think there’s a lot of confusion in the market.
00:27:55 Our mobile strategy is very clear.
00:27:58 We are focused of making Snapdragon synonymous
00:28:02 with premium Android experience.
00:28:04 That’s what Snapdragon is.
00:28:06 Android, the phone of the people.
00:28:08 Yes.
00:28:10 I just have a love for Android.
00:28:12 I’m constantly talking trash to iPhone people.
00:28:13 Sorry, go ahead.
00:28:14 Premium Android experiences.
00:28:16 So we do produce Snapdragon in multiple tier
00:28:20 for every price point, but every year,
00:28:23 you mentioned the HN1,
00:28:26 and every year we’ll provide the flagship product.
00:28:29 And then the other series that is trying to get the best
00:28:33 of every possible technology at that time.
00:28:36 And it’s really focused on enabling the Android ecosystem.
00:28:41 So I’ll give an example.
00:28:42 So you asked me the question, how to compete with Google.
00:28:45 It’s not about competing with Google.
00:28:46 We’re the number one enabler
00:28:48 of the Google Android ecosystem.
00:28:51 And the largest, the number one customer there
00:28:56 is actually Samsung.
00:28:58 And if you look what happened to Samsung,
00:29:00 Samsung, I always said,
00:29:05 since I began my relationship with them,
00:29:08 that cause they always had their own chip.
00:29:10 They always had their own chip.
00:29:12 And if you’ll just look at what happened right now
00:29:14 with the Galaxy S22 that just launched,
00:29:17 they used to balance their business about 50% Qualcomm.
00:29:21 They will get the most advanced markets
00:29:23 like the United States and China and Japan and Korea,
00:29:27 they will assign to Qualcomm.
00:29:28 And then they’ll have their own chip for the markets
00:29:31 that they would be like more emerging markets,
00:29:34 open markets, markets that they have a control
00:29:35 on the channel because they sell a lot of appliances
00:29:38 and other things.
00:29:39 If you look what happened right now, GS22,
00:29:42 75% is Qualcomm.
00:29:46 And then the next large OEMs and Android ecosystem
00:29:51 are the Chinese ones.
00:29:52 Companies like Xiaomi, one of the fastest growing.
00:29:56 It was number one in Europe at some point last year,
00:30:00 then followed by Oppo and OnePlus and Vivo.
00:30:03 So those are some of the largest Qualcomm customers.
00:30:06 And they actually drive the Android ecosystem.
00:30:12 And that’s our mobile strategy
00:30:14 and fully aligned with Google and it’s working.
00:30:18 And not to get into a lot of the investor conversation,
00:30:24 but we’re also happy we became a beneficiary
00:30:29 of the shifts that we saw in the marketplace.
00:30:31 As Huawei became a smaller OEM
00:30:35 as a result of the sanctions,
00:30:37 we saw the rise of a lot of the other OEMs from China,
00:30:42 especially for China domestic market, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo.
00:30:46 They moved to the premium category
00:30:47 and they’re all doing that with Qualcomm.
00:30:49 So we’re actually very fortunate and happy
00:30:53 with the position we are in mobile business.
00:30:55 We do have an Apple relationship.
00:30:57 We provide modem technology to Apple.
00:31:02 It’s a multi year relationship.
00:31:03 Apple has been very public that they are investing
00:31:07 to develop their own modem.
00:31:09 But the Qualcomm strategy has been clear.
00:31:12 We’re really focused on Snapdragon.
00:31:16 Our mobile strategy is not defined
00:31:18 by providing a cellular modem to Apple.
00:31:20 Our mobile strategy is this that we just talked about it.
00:31:23 It’s about the unique thing of Snapdragon
00:31:25 that has every single technology
00:31:27 integrated into a single SOC.
00:31:29 And provides a premium experience.
00:31:32 And that’s what we’re doing
00:31:33 and focusing on the Android ecosystem.
00:31:37 I don’t know if I can ask you this kind of question.
00:31:39 It’s like picking your children or something like this.
00:31:42 But what smartphone with a Snapdragon?
00:31:45 You mentioned Samsung Galaxy S22, OnePlus.
00:31:49 Those are phones I personally really enjoy.
00:31:52 What phone do you currently use?
00:31:54 Or do you have multiple phones?
00:31:55 I do have multiple phones but I do use Galaxy S22.
00:31:59 That’s your favorite one?
00:32:01 All right, well you heard it here first folks.
00:32:03 Okay, so excellent.
00:32:04 Can Qualcomm also, let’s take a brief step away from mobile.
00:32:09 And take on Intel and Apple and other such companies
00:32:13 in the laptop and desktop space.
00:32:15 So the nature of what a computer is seems to be changing.
00:32:18 It’s like smartphones like merging.
00:32:21 It’s all being a smartphone just with the biggest screen
00:32:23 or something like this.
00:32:24 So what does the future of that look like?
00:32:26 Before I answer that question,
00:32:28 let me just step back a little bit.
00:32:30 Because, and I’m sure we can talk more about those things.
00:32:33 But the reality is Qualcomm is changing a lot.
00:32:37 And we use, I know we spend a lot of time
00:32:40 talking about 5G and smartphone and Snapdragon.
00:32:42 And I think that has been what had defined Qualcomm
00:32:45 for many years.
00:32:46 But the reality is, even consistent
00:32:48 with that 5G conversation, which is a technology
00:32:51 to connect everything, Qualcomm is also changing.
00:32:56 Our technology that was in many cases designed for phones.
00:33:00 And we said at the beginning, connectivity and processing.
00:33:05 It’s going to virtually every industry.
00:33:07 And as a result, Qualcomm is really changing with it
00:33:12 and expanding to a number of different addressable markets.
00:33:15 Some of those markets is the PC, as you talk about it.
00:33:21 The conversions of mobile and PC.
00:33:24 And the reason I’m excited about this,
00:33:27 because you see a lot of things happening
00:33:28 that bring this right front and center
00:33:31 when you think about the future technology.
00:33:33 So what we learn with the pandemic
00:33:37 is that the number one use case of personal computers
00:33:42 is communications.
00:33:45 It is interesting when you think about that.
00:33:46 That’s the number one use case on a PC today
00:33:49 is communications.
00:33:50 It’s actually funny because in the cellular industry,
00:33:53 actually I’ll say, let me step back.
00:33:55 In the telecom industry, we’ve been chasing
00:33:59 this killer application of video telephony for decades.
00:34:03 I remember back then in the wire line,
00:34:08 even before the internet and IP, ISDN,
00:34:11 you remember those AT&T desk phones with a little screen
00:34:15 and they said, you can do video telephony.
00:34:17 We don’t watch that in Back to the Future 2.
00:34:21 Then when we started developing 3G,
00:34:23 people said, what’s the application for having data
00:34:25 to a cell phone?
00:34:26 All video telephony.
00:34:27 Then we started doing 4G.
00:34:30 And in the beginning, people said,
00:34:32 well, why do you need all of this broadband?
00:34:33 All video telephony.
00:34:35 But it took a pandemic to make video telephony
00:34:39 the killer application.
00:34:40 And that’s now the number one use case on a PC.
00:34:44 So now think about that for a second.
00:34:47 Personal computers now, they’re technologies
00:34:49 that people when they were gonna buy a PC,
00:34:50 they didn’t care much about it.
00:34:51 Now they do, camera.
00:34:53 Camera, how good is the camera?
00:34:55 The audio, is that connected?
00:34:57 How good is the connectivity?
00:34:58 Do you have the latest and greatest wifi and cellular?
00:35:01 What’s the battery life?
00:35:03 Because you’re gonna be working from anywhere.
00:35:04 Sometimes you know that, sometimes you’re not.
00:35:07 So all those things, what’s the portability like?
00:35:09 So those things started to change
00:35:11 how we should think about the PC.
00:35:13 But I won’t stop there.
00:35:15 Let me talk about another trend.
00:35:17 So, and all come as a result of what we saw the pandemic.
00:35:21 Let’s say that you are,
00:35:23 you’re an engineer, you do computer aided design.
00:35:25 You have an advanced desktop computer
00:35:30 or workstation in your office.
00:35:33 But you wanna work from home someday.
00:35:35 So you’re not gonna move that to your home.
00:35:37 So what do you need to do?
00:35:38 You’re gonna have to rely on that.
00:35:40 You’re gonna run that on the cloud.
00:35:41 And you’re gonna run it on the cloud.
00:35:43 You need high bandwidth
00:35:44 because you almost wanted the cloud
00:35:46 to be the same as your computer for that use case.
00:35:50 That’s the 5G on demand computing use case.
00:35:53 The use 5G is almost a link between two computers.
00:35:57 But then, you know, CIOs are saying,
00:35:59 well, my workforce is going home for certain days.
00:36:02 I want all the data to be in the cloud.
00:36:04 You look at, for example, Microsoft OneDrive
00:36:07 or the ability to collaborate, you need the bandwidth.
00:36:10 So when you put all of those things together,
00:36:13 you start thinking about what is the next generation PC?
00:36:17 And that’s the opportunity for Qualcomm.
00:36:19 I’ll just give an example.
00:36:21 Back in Mobile World Congress recently, Lenovo,
00:36:26 they have a line of enterprise laptops called the ThinkPad.
00:36:32 I’m sure you’re familiar with it.
00:36:34 So they announced the ThinkPad based on Snapdragon.
00:36:38 With 5G on, 28 hours of battery life.
00:36:42 So that’s next generation.
00:36:45 It’s just a nice screen with extremely high, nice screen
00:36:49 and keyboard, and extremely high connectivity
00:36:52 to maybe an even more, like a more powerful machine
00:36:54 in the cloud.
00:36:55 Something more, the data, connecting to the data,
00:36:57 connecting to compute, all that kind of stuff.
00:36:59 You have the camera capabilities,
00:37:01 and let me go one step more.
00:37:03 Microsoft talking about some of the other features
00:37:05 they’re doing now using, on Windows 11, using Snapdragon.
00:37:10 Remember, we talk about it,
00:37:12 Snapdragon has an AI processor inside there.
00:37:15 So one of the cool features Microsoft’s talking about it is
00:37:19 you can be on a Teams call, and you can make sure
00:37:22 your eyes are looking at the camera 100% of the time.
00:37:25 Well, that’s an interesting,
00:37:27 so they can be talking about that.
00:37:28 And you do that with AI.
00:37:29 Yes, that’s really tricky to pull off.
00:37:32 For example, the reason I’m a huge stickler
00:37:34 for doing these in person, these conversations in person,
00:37:36 it’s really tough to get right.
00:37:38 But it’s a worthy challenge.
00:37:39 So that’s where the metaverse hopes to,
00:37:41 so like, I just, because you said the importance
00:37:43 of this telephony of humans connecting,
00:37:46 teleporting themselves, getting that right
00:37:48 is really difficult.
00:37:49 There’s a lot of people hate Zoom meetings,
00:37:52 but that doesn’t mean you can’t improve that experience
00:37:55 and get rid of the hate.
00:37:57 A lot of people hate talking to their car too,
00:37:59 because the voice, the natural language processing
00:38:02 is terrible, but when it’s not, it’s a beautiful thing.
00:38:04 So getting that right is.
00:38:06 This is an opportunity, this is an opportunity.
00:38:08 Think about it, it starts with the PC,
00:38:10 making the PC giving you a better experience for teams,
00:38:14 but then it goes right back into this trend
00:38:18 of connecting physical and digital spaces.
00:38:20 And all the work we’re doing with the metaverse
00:38:23 and virtual reality and metareality in the future
00:38:25 is why not call somebody or connect with somebody
00:38:28 with a hologram, it’s possible.
00:38:30 And also to mention some increasing amount
00:38:33 of intelligence in our cars.
00:38:36 So semi autonomous, autonomous cars,
00:38:38 and the interactivity between human and car,
00:38:41 which for me, things are really exciting.
00:38:44 Let me ask you a big question.
00:38:46 So when aliens again now on the other side, right,
00:38:49 and humans destroy themselves through nuclear war
00:38:51 centuries from now.
00:38:52 Let’s hope not.
00:38:53 Let’s hope not.
00:38:54 But in case, you know, let’s just hypothetical
00:38:56 thought experiment.
00:38:57 And they write a history of humanity in the 21st century.
00:39:01 What would they remember Qualcomm in the 21st century
00:39:05 as a company?
00:39:06 Would it be a car company?
00:39:08 Like think of all the crazy pivots that might happen
00:39:10 in the next like 50 years.
00:39:13 Because you’re thinking, you said Qualcomm enables
00:39:15 all of these things with 5G and there’ll be probably
00:39:18 other Gs, it keeps increasing.
00:39:20 So basically connectivity and computation
00:39:23 and everything becomes connected and everything
00:39:25 is capable of computation.
00:39:27 Might you become a robotics and car company?
00:39:30 I will argue we’re already an automotive company today.
00:39:36 But let me tell you what I would like Qualcomm to be,
00:39:40 remember and recognize for.
00:39:43 I think everyone that knows Qualcomm immediately,
00:39:47 you know, connect us, pun intended,
00:39:49 to connectivity and wireless.
00:39:52 But the reality is we’re being actually the company
00:39:54 providing intelligence and processing to everything
00:39:58 on the edge, everything outside the data center
00:40:01 that we’re doing.
00:40:02 Those billions of devices that are gonna be connected.
00:40:05 And that’s kind of explained when we talk about
00:40:08 the connected intelligent edge, the beyond phones,
00:40:11 cars, species, and all of those.
00:40:13 And the broader IOTs, we talk about everything
00:40:16 will be connected and intelligent.
00:40:18 And that’s what we want Qualcomm to be recognized for.
00:40:20 So by the way, for people who are not familiar,
00:40:23 there’s some technical jargon.
00:40:25 People use the word edge, like edge computing.
00:40:28 It’s, by the way, that’s probably changing
00:40:30 what that even means.
00:40:31 But it’s basically everything that’s not a giant thing
00:40:34 that’s making a lot of noise in a building somewhere.
00:40:36 So it’s mobile devices and the mobile devices
00:40:39 of all kinds, well, a refrigerator’s not mobile,
00:40:42 but it would be edge.
00:40:43 So it’s like what’s a sandwich, that kind of discussion.
00:40:48 But basically edge computing is the edge
00:40:53 of that expanding space that you mentioned
00:40:56 that Qualcomm is trying to connect
00:40:59 and enable with computation.
00:41:00 Here’s a simple way to describe what the edge is
00:41:04 and edge computing is.
00:41:05 I think as we think about the evolution of the data center,
00:41:09 you need to bring the computational closer
00:41:12 to where the device is.
00:41:14 Also, when you put the computation together
00:41:17 with the connectivity at the same time,
00:41:19 you’re gonna see a lot of advancement
00:41:22 of artificial intelligence happening closer
00:41:25 or at the device.
00:41:26 Look, it’s a very, I have a simple way to describe it.
00:41:29 Remember in the beginning of this conversation,
00:41:31 we talk about in the 4G era, broadband
00:41:35 and mobile computing evolved side by side.
00:41:38 If you’re gonna have broadband,
00:41:40 you might as well have a computer in the palm of your hand.
00:41:41 So we needed to invest in those two technologies.
00:41:45 In 5G, AI develops side by side.
00:41:49 You’re connected to the cloud 100% of the time.
00:41:52 You have a high bandwidth and you have now
00:41:54 a smart and intelligent thing that can make decision
00:41:56 in real time, provide context information to the cloud
00:42:00 to make the models more accurate
00:42:02 and as well compare and contrast to the cloud.
00:42:05 So there’s gonna be an exponential development of AI
00:42:08 happening with all the edge devices,
00:42:11 the devices that are outside the data center
00:42:14 and computation is gonna go alongside that.
00:42:16 And a great example of that is the car.
00:42:19 The car, we haven’t talked much about the car,
00:42:22 but Qualcomm is now, you could argue was as much
00:42:26 as an automotive company as wireless company,
00:42:28 working 26 global brands.
00:42:32 And it’s easy to see, if you look at our mobile heritage
00:42:36 and we talk about form factors, thermal, battery life,
00:42:40 you’re not gonna put a server in a trunk of a car,
00:42:43 but you need as much computational capabilities.
00:42:46 And that’s we see Qualcomm providing,
00:42:49 as the car become a connected computer on wheels,
00:42:53 we provide the computational and all the sensors
00:42:56 for you to do assisted driving
00:42:57 for the new digital cockpit experience
00:42:59 connecting the car to the cloud
00:43:01 and it’s all of that’s happening at the edge.
00:43:03 Does Qualcomm want to be the brain
00:43:05 of a lot of autonomous vehicles in the future
00:43:07 of different, you said brands, like Mercedes,
00:43:10 BMW, I don’t know, whatever, just whatever car.
00:43:13 Cars have the sexy thing they do
00:43:15 and then it defines their brand and so on.
00:43:18 And then there’s the brain
00:43:19 that doesn’t need to have branding supposedly.
00:43:22 So does Qualcomm see that
00:43:23 or will I be able to buy a Qualcomm car?
00:43:26 Like literally it’ll be Qualcomm.
00:43:27 No, you’re not gonna be able to buy a Qualcomm car,
00:43:29 but we are ready on our way to become the brains of the car.
00:43:35 The way you should think about Qualcomm automotive strategy
00:43:38 is the car companies realize
00:43:42 they need to become technology companies.
00:43:44 You just look, for example, of the market cap
00:43:47 of some of the new electrical commerce
00:43:50 and compare them with the legacy car companies.
00:43:55 Which one is that?
00:43:56 I heard of, one of them lives in Austin.
00:44:00 Let’s say Rivian, right?
00:44:02 Rivian.
00:44:03 Oh, that one too, yes.
00:44:03 You know, the car companies are not going away.
00:44:05 It’s actually a mistake not to bet in the car companies.
00:44:09 The car companies need a technology partner.
00:44:12 They will provide the digital chassis for them.
00:44:16 And that’s what we’re doing.
00:44:18 So if you look at Qualcomm,
00:44:19 we talk about a Snapdragon digital chassis.
00:44:22 So we want to be the preferred technology partner
00:44:27 of the car companies, and I think it’s working.
00:44:30 Strategy is working right now.
00:44:32 So basically helping the car companies
00:44:34 accelerate into becoming technology companies.
00:44:37 Connecting the car to the cloud,
00:44:39 redesign the interior of the digital cockpit experience,
00:44:42 and provide the computation and sensor capabilities
00:44:45 for autonomy and assisted driving.
00:44:48 On the topic of robots, when millions or billions
00:44:50 of robots roam the earth in the future among us humans,
00:44:54 and I am for one concerned in a small percentage,
00:44:59 but largely I’m excited about that future,
00:45:02 will Qualcomm be the thing that powers their brain?
00:45:08 We have in our IoT business,
00:45:10 which has been one of the fastest growing business for us,
00:45:13 a number of robotics engagement.
00:45:16 So I’ll give you some example.
00:45:18 If you look of the Amazon Astro,
00:45:23 you familiar with that?
00:45:24 There’s two Snapdragon in there.
00:45:28 There is?
00:45:29 This is really exciting.
00:45:30 They’re supposed to ship it to me.
00:45:31 Where is it?
00:45:32 Okay, but anyway, that’s really cool.
00:45:33 I didn’t know it was Snapdragon.
00:45:35 Yeah, we’re working with robotics in industrial.
00:45:39 Of course, drones.
00:45:41 We’re getting more and more traction for robotics.
00:45:44 Sorry to interrupt.
00:45:45 Industrial robotics, too, you said?
00:45:47 Industrial, especially when you think about
00:45:51 what’s gonna happen with the factory of the future,
00:45:55 the industrial side of the future,
00:45:57 the warehouse of the future,
00:45:58 when you bring 5G, for example, to it,
00:46:01 and you have a number of different use cases,
00:46:04 and then you see a lot of robotics application.
00:46:09 And of course, drones.
00:46:11 And the most famous, I will consider that a robot,
00:46:16 the most famous robot in the world right now,
00:46:19 it’s powered by Snapdragon,
00:46:21 which is the Mars Ingenuity helicopter.
00:46:24 The whole helicopter, the cameras and everything,
00:46:27 it’s powered by Snapdragon.
00:46:28 And talking about exciting thing for an engineer,
00:46:32 the same Snapdragon that goes to a phone,
00:46:35 and it can go to a Galaxy phone, for example, Samsung,
00:46:37 the same, not a special one, went all the way to Mars.
00:46:42 Is exploring other planets, looking for alien life,
00:46:45 and maybe gets to meet them.
00:46:46 Wouldn’t that be interesting,
00:46:47 if a Snapdragon is the thing that first sees an alien?
00:46:49 It’s like, what the hell?
00:46:50 We did not program this in the computer vision.
00:46:52 I once used the example to go back
00:46:53 to the conversation we had about quality.
00:46:57 As an engineer, you need to make sure it works.
00:46:59 Can you imagine if it gets over there on Mars
00:47:01 and it doesn’t work?
00:47:02 Listen, this is very stressful.
00:47:04 What NASA, what SpaceX, what all those companies are doing
00:47:07 is extremely stressful.
00:47:08 The room for mistakes is tiny.
00:47:10 But that’s super exciting for an engineer, once again.
00:47:14 There’s been a global semiconductor chip shortage.
00:47:17 So from your perspective, just it’d be interesting
00:47:19 to get your expert analysis of the situation.
00:47:23 What do you think are the main reasons
00:47:24 and how has Qualcomm been affected and how can it help?
00:47:28 In this, in the future, things like it.
00:47:31 Okay, that’s a big topic of conversation.
00:47:36 And we only have five minutes.
00:47:38 So I’ll try to be as objective as I can.
00:47:41 So first, let’s talk about what caused it.
00:47:43 And you hear a lot of different things.
00:47:46 I will try to put it within the right context.
00:47:48 The first thing that caused it, really,
00:47:51 is the acceleration of digital transformation
00:47:54 of pretty much everything in every industry.
00:47:59 Every industry has been digitally transformed.
00:48:01 And as such, the amount of semiconductors
00:48:04 that are required is much larger.
00:48:07 Just to give you a practical example,
00:48:09 if you think about the automotive as an example,
00:48:11 the cars that are, there’s cars that are launched,
00:48:15 a new model launching today.
00:48:17 The new model launching today most likely has 10X
00:48:20 the amount of chips of the prior model.
00:48:23 And the model that people are working on
00:48:25 that’s coming in next, probably 10X that one.
00:48:28 So you see the amount of silicon
00:48:30 and then billions of things become smart.
00:48:32 More and more data goes to the cloud.
00:48:34 The data center grows.
00:48:35 So the floor for semiconductor consumptions went up by a lot.
00:48:40 Then you have things that aggravated this.
00:48:43 The pandemic aggravated this.
00:48:45 There is a couple of trends from the pandemic.
00:48:47 The enterprise transformation of the home.
00:48:50 The home became an enterprise.
00:48:51 Massive amounts of upgrades on broadband and IoT.
00:48:57 The office has changed to the way we work now,
00:49:02 including the ability to support collaboration tools
00:49:05 and video.
00:49:06 Then you have the higher demand for products
00:49:14 during the pandemic because people wanted to be connected.
00:49:17 People bought new phones and new tablets
00:49:19 and new computers, new gaming.
00:49:22 So all of those things came on top of that
00:49:24 as the aggravated issue, but they’re not the main issue.
00:49:28 The main issue is it’s actually a long term growth
00:49:34 of digital.
00:49:35 So what I’m hearing you say is the pandemic
00:49:38 was not the cause, it was an aggravation.
00:49:40 It was an aggravation.
00:49:41 So is there a way we can support as a human civilization
00:49:48 in terms of manufacture, in terms of supply,
00:49:51 the kind of growth that you’re talking about
00:49:53 in devices and so on?
00:49:55 Is there high level ideas you can say
00:49:58 of what that’s required there?
00:49:59 Yes, and I think that’s the second part of the answer.
00:50:02 So what’s happening now?
00:50:03 How are we gonna get out of this?
00:50:05 So we see a lot of capacity investments
00:50:10 put into place by the industry.
00:50:12 We had invested a lot with our suppliers.
00:50:15 A lot of the suppliers had made plans
00:50:19 about increasing the capacity.
00:50:22 The industry is planning to double
00:50:24 its total semiconductor manufacturing capacity
00:50:27 within the next five years, an example.
00:50:30 So that’s already happening.
00:50:31 And then you see things which are actually good.
00:50:33 They’re good.
00:50:35 The initiative such as the United States CHIPS Act
00:50:38 and now the European CHIPS Act.
00:50:40 The United States CHIPS Act’s about $52 billion.
00:50:43 The European’s about 43.
00:50:45 Their goal combined is to get at least 50%
00:50:49 of the consumption with manufacturing installed
00:50:54 within the US and European geographies.
00:50:57 And that’s also very good.
00:50:58 That’s yet another incentive for more manufacturing capacity
00:51:03 to be built and to be built
00:51:05 with a geographic distributed way,
00:51:08 which that’s how you plan supply chain.
00:51:09 So those I think are good things.
00:51:12 So if anything we learn through the crisis
00:51:16 is that semiconductor is important.
00:51:19 Semiconductor companies are important
00:51:21 and we need to invest in semiconductors.
00:51:23 We’re turning to the grilling of the CEO
00:51:26 with the hard questions.
00:51:28 This is almost from my own education of the space.
00:51:30 You mentioned regulators.
00:51:32 Qualcomm paid out and received payment
00:51:34 of billions of dollars in settlement and fines.
00:51:38 There seems to be a lot of huge lawsuits in this space.
00:51:40 How do you explain that?
00:51:42 Does this get in the way of innovation
00:51:45 or does it promote it?
00:51:46 I will rephrase it by saying there used to be a lot
00:51:50 of lawsuits in this space.
00:51:51 In addition of what we do in semiconductors,
00:51:56 our processors and our modems, the Snapdragon platform,
00:52:02 we also have a licensing business,
00:52:04 which has been a part of the company since the beginning.
00:52:08 As the largest inventors of the essential technology
00:52:14 in 2G, CDMA, 3G, 4G and 5G,
00:52:19 and Qualcomm contribute that to the standards.
00:52:21 So we always had this model that rather than invent
00:52:25 the technology and be the only one producing the products,
00:52:27 we license so everyone can produce it.
00:52:31 And as such, we receive intellectual property
00:52:35 for the standard essential patents.
00:52:40 As part of our past dispute with Apple,
00:52:44 that’s behind us now.
00:52:46 Your friends now.
00:52:47 They’re my customers.
00:52:49 And as part of that, I think the licensing model
00:52:54 got tested, I think, in every geography.
00:52:58 And we succeeded in every single geography
00:53:02 to validate the pro competitiveness of this model.
00:53:06 I think the fair, reasonable,
00:53:09 non discriminatory aspect of this model.
00:53:12 And I would argue that besides being the most successful
00:53:16 licensing business to date in the industry,
00:53:19 probably the one that’s been battle tested
00:53:21 and is most stable because there’s not a single
00:53:25 jurisdiction that we have not had to validate that model.
00:53:29 So it’s part of our past and what it creates
00:53:32 is probably create a lot of stability
00:53:34 in our licensing business.
00:53:35 But having said that, the growth of the company
00:53:38 is in the semiconductor space.
00:53:40 And the semiconductor, so licensing is,
00:53:43 you come up with a pretty good idea,
00:53:44 you have a bunch of smart people coming up with cool ideas,
00:53:48 and then once you come up with that idea,
00:53:49 you sell that idea to others, they get to use it.
00:53:52 That’s essentially what a license.
00:53:53 The license revenue we have is for the,
00:53:58 what we call the SCP, standard essential patents,
00:54:02 that are part of the 2G, 3G, 4G, and 5G standards.
00:54:07 So if you want to build anything with 5G,
00:54:10 you need to get a license from Qualcomm
00:54:13 because it uses Qualcomm essential technology
00:54:16 as part of the standard.
00:54:17 And a slightly different model,
00:54:19 or a lot different model with the semiconductor
00:54:22 is you design, you inject a bunch of fascinating ideas,
00:54:25 how to build the Snapdragon, and then there’s,
00:54:28 because it’s a fabulous company,
00:54:29 you have somebody build the chip
00:54:33 and then goes into a phone with the branding
00:54:35 and all that kind of stuff.
00:54:36 And that has less kind of players involved,
00:54:40 it’s not a license.
00:54:40 We sell the product.
00:54:42 We don’t license semiconductor technology,
00:54:45 we build products and we sell products.
00:54:49 This is your first year as a CEO.
00:54:51 Not one year yet.
00:54:52 Not one year yet.
00:54:56 Let’s hope it’ll be in June, it’ll be one year.
00:54:58 Okay.
00:55:00 This is a company that’s involved
00:55:04 with a lot of fascinating technologies
00:55:06 and it’s touching the lives of billions of people.
00:55:09 A lot of complicated stuff.
00:55:11 Like I said, licensing technologies.
00:55:13 You have to collaborate with manufacturers.
00:55:17 You have to then work with, however many you said,
00:55:20 car companies and all these clients and so on.
00:55:23 And you have to, with tech companies, Apple and so on.
00:55:29 What’s that like?
00:55:30 What lessons have you learned about leadership
00:55:33 and maybe about yourself as a human being
00:55:35 from this first, almost a year, soon to be a year
00:55:39 as a CEO of this incredible, this complex,
00:55:42 this large company?
00:55:43 That’s a loaded question.
00:55:44 Let me answer in reverse order.
00:55:47 First thing that I learned, and I think it’s probably common
00:55:52 across CEOs, especially in our industry,
00:55:55 is it will be great if I had more time.
00:55:59 I think there’s, especially because we grow
00:56:01 in so many areas and there’s so many things to learn,
00:56:04 so many relationships to build, time to spend
00:56:08 with a number of different technologies.
00:56:11 But it kind of reflects really the size
00:56:14 of the opportunity that exists for Qualcomm.
00:56:16 Qualcomm, it is really growing in a number
00:56:19 of different directions all at the same time.
00:56:22 And so it did got busier.
00:56:25 And part of this is because I’m spending a lot of time
00:56:29 understanding the new industries we’re going in
00:56:32 and building relationships.
00:56:35 Second thing, which is a lot to do
00:56:37 with how I think about things
00:56:39 and a little bit of my personality.
00:56:41 At the end of the day, business partnerships
00:56:44 are really done by people.
00:56:46 And I think the importance of having trusted relationships
00:56:51 for the long term is extremely important.
00:56:54 And I’ve been dedicated to do that as CEO.
00:56:57 We’re not a company that plays for the short term.
00:57:01 We don’t.
00:57:01 And when we build new partnerships,
00:57:03 we expect that to be for decades.
00:57:05 And so I spend time doing that
00:57:09 and think that’s important for Qualcomm.
00:57:11 The other part of your question is,
00:57:15 we do have a lot of opportunities in all different areas.
00:57:18 What we like, and I’ve been fortunate enough
00:57:21 to become CEO at a time,
00:57:23 that a lot of the trends are pointing to our technology.
00:57:27 We talk about some of them.
00:57:28 We talk about merger of physical and digital spaces.
00:57:31 We talk about the transformation of the automobile.
00:57:33 We talk about the merge of computing and mobile,
00:57:38 the enterprise transformation of the home.
00:57:40 There are many of those trends.
00:57:42 And those trends create opportunities for Qualcomm
00:57:46 to be providing technology first.
00:57:50 And as such, we’re in a hurry.
00:57:53 So I’m in a little bit of a hurry
00:57:55 because I think the opportunity is incredible
00:57:57 for technology, but having fun and enjoying the job.
00:58:02 Is there a burden because of so much
00:58:04 of what you said is partnerships
00:58:07 and almost like friendships,
00:58:09 connections with other human beings?
00:58:12 Me as an introvert that has a lot of social anxiety,
00:58:15 that seems extremely stressful.
00:58:17 So is there that burden on your shoulders?
00:58:19 You have to wake up every day
00:58:21 and talk to friends you’ve had for many years.
00:58:25 It can be, and then convince them
00:58:28 and make partnerships with them,
00:58:31 talk with them, describe to them the future,
00:58:33 sell them an idea, and then yourself grow
00:58:36 because you don’t know what the heck
00:58:37 the future is gonna be like.
00:58:38 And you have to project both confidence and humility,
00:58:41 all those kinds of things.
00:58:42 Is that exhausting?
00:58:45 It is exhausting, but it’s something I do like to do.
00:58:48 And it’s not only with partners, really.
00:58:50 It’s also internally to your employees, I think,
00:58:54 to get alignment on the vision
00:58:55 and faith in the vision and execute.
00:58:57 And at the end of the day, we’re very fortunate.
00:58:59 We have a lot of smart people.
00:59:00 So people, if they’re aligned with the vision,
00:59:02 they know what to do.
00:59:03 And then, of course, as CEO,
00:59:05 you have to convince your investors
00:59:06 that that’s the right idea as well.
00:59:09 If you can put on your wise sage hat,
00:59:13 do you have a device for young people
00:59:16 in high school and college?
00:59:18 You yourself started from the humble beginnings in Brazil,
00:59:24 maybe a bit of a wild, risky decision to go to Japan,
00:59:28 and now are the head of one of the biggest,
00:59:30 most successful, most impactful companies in the world.
00:59:34 Given that story, can you give advice to young people today
00:59:37 that they can have a career
00:59:41 or just a life they can be proud of?
00:59:43 I think the first thing,
00:59:45 and of course, all of those answers
00:59:47 are gonna relate to my own experience, right?
00:59:52 The first thing is it always worked for me
00:59:56 to have a plan, even if the plan
01:00:00 is just what I’m gonna do in the next two years,
01:00:02 but what do I want to do?
01:00:04 Where do I wanna go?
01:00:05 And I think it’s important for people,
01:00:08 especially young people,
01:00:10 is to really have a dream and go pursue it.
01:00:15 I mean, have a dream does not go back to bed to sleep.
01:00:17 It’s really what do you want to accomplish
01:00:20 and then what it’s gonna take to do that.
01:00:22 And then believe in yourself.
01:00:24 Like I said, I joined Qualcomm as an engineer
01:00:28 and I didn’t have any plans when I joined to be CEO,
01:00:33 but I do want, as an engineer,
01:00:34 what I wanted to do, where I wanna contribute,
01:00:38 what I wanted to work on,
01:00:39 and then keep evolving from that point in time.
01:00:43 The other thing is, this is an advice,
01:00:46 it’s more of like career advice that I got early in my career
01:00:51 was extremely helpful for me
01:00:54 and I will give that advice
01:00:55 to everyone that is interested.
01:00:58 Spend time understanding what are the things you’re good at
01:01:02 and what are the things you’re not.
01:01:04 Like what is the real border between your area of competence
01:01:08 and your area of incompetence?
01:01:10 And once you see that,
01:01:12 once you see that you know exactly what you have to work on
01:01:15 and you can say, that’s where I wanna go next,
01:01:18 this is the gap, I need to do it.
01:01:21 And it’s faster when you can identify yourself
01:01:24 before other people can tell you.
01:01:27 Then it leads to automatically the next step.
01:01:31 Surround yourself, the people that are very good
01:01:34 at the things that you’re not.
01:01:35 So you have to be radically honest
01:01:38 about the things that you’re not good at,
01:01:41 but given what you’re passionate about,
01:01:42 you need to get good at,
01:01:44 or you would like to get good at,
01:01:45 and surround yourself by those people.
01:01:47 How often did the plans you make actually work out?
01:01:50 So you said it’s important to make plans.
01:01:52 You didn’t say anything about
01:01:54 it’s important to execute on those plans.
01:01:56 More than 50% success rate.
01:01:58 Try to keep it above 50.
01:01:59 Try to keep it above 50.
01:02:01 What was the whole, why did you end up in Japan?
01:02:05 I’ve been fortunate enough to work in cellular and wireless
01:02:09 my entire career.
01:02:10 So I always liked communications.
01:02:13 When I entered engineering school,
01:02:15 my dad was electrical engineer,
01:02:17 but he worked with the utility company.
01:02:19 He wanted me to graduate
01:02:21 in traditional electrical engineering,
01:02:23 like energy generation, distribution.
01:02:27 But I like electronics communication,
01:02:29 so I ended up doing both.
01:02:31 And I always liked communication.
01:02:35 I was fascinated by wireless communication.
01:02:37 So my first job at a college,
01:02:38 I started working for a Japanese company down in Brazil,
01:02:42 was NEC, and within about a year in,
01:02:44 they transferred me to Tokyo.
01:02:46 They asked me to go to their headquarters,
01:02:48 and it was the first time I left Brazil.
01:02:51 A little bit different from Brazil.
01:02:53 Culturally. Very different.
01:02:54 It is in the other side of the planet.
01:02:58 And that’s how I started.
01:03:00 You said your father’s an electrical engineer.
01:03:03 Do you think what you’re doing now makes your father proud?
01:03:07 I think he’s very proud.
01:03:08 I think especially, you know,
01:03:12 he tells me that I’m still the same person
01:03:15 that never changed.
01:03:17 Does he give you advice?
01:03:19 Does he criticize what you’re doing?
01:03:20 Tell you how to improve?
01:03:22 My mom and dad still give me advice today.
01:03:24 I’m very fortunate for that.
01:03:25 But he’s proud.
01:03:29 I’m also proud because there are very few Brazilians
01:03:33 that have achieved a position as CEO
01:03:36 of a company the size of Qualcomm.
01:03:39 And I do know that also I carry a burden,
01:03:43 especially for the Latino community,
01:03:47 to be an inspiration for them
01:03:49 and make sure I set a good example.
01:03:51 So not just your mom and dad,
01:03:54 but the culture, the people that were originally your home.
01:04:01 Do you, you know, life is finite.
01:04:04 Do you think about your own mortality?
01:04:07 Look, I’m a devout Christian,
01:04:10 and so I’m a big believer that there’s,
01:04:15 this is just a transition.
01:04:18 But don’t spend a lot of time thinking about that.
01:04:22 I am somebody good, better, and different
01:04:25 that try as much as possible to leave the present,
01:04:29 and that’s what I do.
01:04:31 And try to make the present better
01:04:33 on this place here on Earth.
01:04:35 Absolutely.
01:04:36 And that some of these technologies,
01:04:38 some of these ideas are kind of a different kind
01:04:40 of immortality as well,
01:04:42 because they propagate through time
01:04:44 and have impact on people in the best possible way.
01:04:47 So technology can be scary,
01:04:49 technology can be destructive,
01:04:51 but it seems like in the end it can do a lot of good.
01:04:56 More good, there’s more good than bad.
01:04:59 What do you think is the meaning of this whole thing?
01:05:01 I asked you about aliens observing us.
01:05:03 What’s the meaning of life?
01:05:05 Cristiano, what’s the meaning of life?
01:05:09 Easy questions.
01:05:10 That’s not an easy question at all.
01:05:13 I think that’s a question,
01:05:15 at least for me, you have to answer individually.
01:05:18 But I do believe we’re all here for a purpose.
01:05:24 In my prayers I always ask that I stay on track
01:05:28 to whatever my purpose is,
01:05:30 but I do believe we’re here for a purpose,
01:05:33 and we need to do the best we can
01:05:34 during the time we have on this Earth.
01:05:36 So that means create beautiful things for you
01:05:41 as an engineer?
01:05:42 Yes, and create beautiful things, yes.
01:05:44 What about love?
01:05:46 What’s the role of love in the human condition?
01:05:49 Love’s very important,
01:05:50 and it’s an essential part of being human.
01:05:54 It comes in the package.
01:05:56 And I think if you look at the situation,
01:06:00 what’s happening right now,
01:06:01 I think if you look at the situation
01:06:03 with some of the underprivileged communities,
01:06:06 you look at the homeless situation,
01:06:08 I think we all need more love.
01:06:10 Yeah, and I think people that build incredible technology
01:06:12 sometimes forget the love part.
01:06:14 Those are all, it’s all integrated.
01:06:17 There’s no, thinking about humanity is really important
01:06:21 when you build tools that empower that humanity.
01:06:24 Because there’s, I think, at least I personally believe
01:06:27 we’re all capable of both evil and good.
01:06:30 And we have to build technology, build societies,
01:06:33 build governments, build communities
01:06:35 that inspire us to connect with the good part
01:06:40 within all of us.
01:06:40 I’m a big believer that technology is, at the end,
01:06:43 the force for good.
01:06:44 And if you just look, you know,
01:06:47 not trying to move away from a deep discussion
01:06:50 to a more specific, technical one.
01:06:54 But we started a conversation talking about smartphones.
01:06:58 And smartphones really, the first time
01:07:03 that you could say that everybody in the world
01:07:05 was able to connect to the internet
01:07:06 and connect to each other.
01:07:07 And I think what that empowerment that that provided,
01:07:11 it’s an incredible force for good.
01:07:14 Well, the company you lead, the technology you’ve created,
01:07:18 one of them that I’m especially excited about,
01:07:21 which is Snapdragon, the whole line of processors there.
01:07:23 Currently, I would say at about 10 billion transistors.
01:07:27 If you think about the human brain,
01:07:29 it’s about 100 billion neurons.
01:07:31 So I think 11 Samsung Galaxy S22s
01:07:36 are already smarter than me.
01:07:37 And that’s being nice to me.
01:07:41 I’m really honored that you spent
01:07:42 your extremely valuable time with me,
01:07:44 even though you said Pele is the favorite player.
01:07:48 Beyond all of that, I think you’re an incredible person,
01:07:51 incredible leader, and you lead
01:07:53 an incredible engineering company.
01:07:54 So thank you for doing that.
01:07:55 Oh, thank you so much.
01:07:56 Thanks for the kind words.
01:07:58 Really a pleasure having this conversation.
01:07:59 I really had a lot of fun doing it.
01:08:01 And thank you for having me in your podcast.
01:08:04 Thanks for listening to this conversation
01:08:06 with Christiano Aman.
01:08:07 To support this podcast, please check out
01:08:09 our sponsors in the description.
01:08:11 And now, let me leave you with some words
01:08:13 from Stephen Hawking.
01:08:15 For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals.
01:08:20 Then something happened, which unleashed
01:08:22 the power of our imagination.
01:08:24 We learned to talk, and we learned to listen.
01:08:28 Speech has allowed the communication of ideas,
01:08:31 enabling human beings to work together
01:08:33 to build the impossible.
01:08:35 Mankind’s greatest achievements have come about by talking,
01:08:40 and its greatest failures by not talking.
01:08:44 It doesn’t have to be like this.
01:08:46 Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future.
01:08:49 With the technology at our disposal,
01:08:51 the possibilities are unbounded.
01:08:54 All we need to do is make sure we keep talking.
01:08:58 Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.