Transcript
00:00:00 The following is a conversation with Chris Duffin, the mad scientist of strength.
00:00:05 He’s one of the strongest people in the world, but is also an engineer of some of the most
00:00:10 innovative strength equipment I’ve ever seen.
00:00:13 Check out his company Kabuki Strength.
00:00:16 He is the only person who squatted and deadlifted 1000 pounds for multiple reps, and achieved
00:00:22 many other amazing feats of strength.
00:00:25 He has lived one hell of a life of hardship and triumph, as he writes about in his book
00:00:30 called The Eagle and the Dragon.
00:00:33 Quick mention of our sponsors, Headspace, Magic Spoon, Sun Basket, and Ladder.
00:00:39 Check them out in the description to support this podcast.
00:00:43 As a side note, let me say that I was always a fan of strength, both powerlifting and Olympic
00:00:48 weightlifting, both as a fan and practitioner.
00:00:53 Basically I’m a fan of people who are willing to put in years of hard work towards finding
00:00:58 out what the limits of their body is, and then smashing past those limits.
00:01:03 People like Chris Duffin, or on the Olympic weightlifting side, people like Dmitri Klokov.
00:01:10 That guy is great.
00:01:11 This is why I love watching the Olympics, both the heartbreaks and the triumphs.
00:01:15 They all reveal the incredible heights that the human mind and the human body can reach.
00:01:22 This is the Lex Friedman podcast, and here is my conversation with Chris Duffin.
00:01:28 You’ve been a part of several incredible feats of strength.
00:01:33 Which was the hardest, or maybe one you’re most proud of?
00:01:37 Definitely the one I’m most proud of is that journey for the grand goals.
00:01:42 It was like a five year scope that I chased this.
00:01:45 And so when you think about training, it took more than five years, obviously.
00:01:49 By that point, I’d been training for over 25 years.
00:01:53 But it makes me proud.
00:01:54 I mean, there were three distinct things that I wanted to accomplish out of this.
00:01:57 So it was really thought out.
00:02:00 And this was kind of my exit from being a competitive lifter.
00:02:06 And basically saying, hey, I’m going to be an Instagram lifter, an exhibition lifter,
00:02:11 or whatever.
00:02:12 I’ve done this for 16 years, I was number one in the world for like eight years straight,
00:02:17 all time world records.
00:02:18 And I’m like, I’m not going to do that anymore.
00:02:20 What I want to do is just something deep down to me that is really important.
00:02:25 And there’s three things that were driving this.
00:02:27 And this is a five year journey that I went through to do this.
00:02:31 I really wanted to showcase that you could do something that is well beyond the scope
00:02:37 of what people think is humanly possible.
00:02:40 So just this inspiration thing, this grand over the top, like if you set your mind to
00:02:47 a single minded goal, you can go so much further.
00:02:50 And I didn’t even say what the goal was upfront, because it was so far out there, I would have
00:02:54 been laughed at.
00:02:55 And that’s, I think big goals should be kept pretty damn close to start with for that reason
00:03:01 too.
00:03:02 But and then the second piece was to walk the walk to show like the principles of what
00:03:07 I believed in around human movement, the ability to manage and control the spinal mechanics
00:03:13 and the output that can have on the body.
00:03:15 And so I wanted to take the two most basic movements that every able bodied person should
00:03:19 be able to do.
00:03:20 So fundamental movement patterns, the squat, which is like, in the developmental approach
00:03:26 is around nine months as a baby from a developmental kinesiology standpoint, and a really basic
00:03:32 pattern that every able bodied person should be able to master the other one being the
00:03:35 hip hinge, being able to pick something up off the ground, a deadlift.
00:03:40 And I wanted to do those two, not just one, because I wanted to show the principles that
00:03:46 I wasn’t built for one, I wasn’t a specialist because of my lever links, torso links, all
00:03:55 that, any outliers, because nobody had ever done a thousand pound squat.
00:04:01 So this is it is and a thousand pound deadlift.
00:04:05 It was outside of the scope of what anybody’s there’s like half a dozen people that have
00:04:10 done one or the other, but nobody’s ever done both.
00:04:14 And I wanted to do something unique.
00:04:15 I wanted to do them, not only do it, but do them for reps to leave literally no question
00:04:21 out there.
00:04:22 And there’s no competition for that.
00:04:24 So it was this is what I’m going to go do.
00:04:28 And to pull it off, I had some past issues with my elbows and stuff that I couldn’t work
00:04:32 around.
00:04:33 So I had to wear straps, which was another reason I couldn’t do it in the competition
00:04:37 setting.
00:04:39 So the first year I worked up and I did a thousand and two pound deadlift plates were
00:04:43 weighed afterwards.
00:04:44 It was a couple a little bit over and I did it for almost three reps.
00:04:49 And that still stands as a Guinness world record.
00:04:52 Just the one rep does is the most weight ever sumo deadlifted.
00:04:56 And one other person has deadlifted a thousand for reps at this point.
00:04:59 And that was a Thor Bjornsson from Game of Thrones.
00:05:02 He’s done a thousand for a double as well.
00:05:04 So then the next four years and I did a bunch of feats of strength on the way, but it was
00:05:08 all about building that axial loading capacity, the strength that because now I’m moving the
00:05:14 weight from my hands up to my shoulders.
00:05:16 And so to do it for reps is like so much harder than a single like five to 10 seconds versus
00:05:22 30 plus seconds to be able to buffer and manage all that with that kind of load is just crazy.
00:05:30 So it’s literally about the duration that your body is carrying the load.
00:05:34 Yeah, that’s a big part of it.
00:05:36 Yeah, because you have to you’re using the resource of the diaphragm for stabilization.
00:05:41 And so it it’s also responsible for respiration and all this other stuff.
00:05:45 So even when you’re not squatting, you’ve got to be handling those loads.
00:05:48 Just holding that weight is fascinating.
00:05:50 It’s like it’s fascinating that the human body can do that, can can maintain that structure,
00:05:57 just everything working together, that the biology, the skeletal structure, the the musculature
00:06:02 on top of that can hold the weight.
00:06:05 It’s fascinating to watch.
00:06:06 Everything is very intentful about positioning and how you’re creating pressure and all this
00:06:11 sort of stuff, especially for me.
00:06:12 So when I mentioned that half a dozen people have squatted it and half a dozen people have
00:06:16 deadlifted it.
00:06:17 You understand those people all weigh three hundred and eighty to four hundred and forty
00:06:20 pounds.
00:06:21 I weighed to sixty five to two eighty five, depending on where I was between the two.
00:06:26 So there’s that as well.
00:06:27 Right.
00:06:28 So big, big difference.
00:06:30 And over the course of that, I did a lot of other feats of strength that fit in that capacity.
00:06:35 And we can skip over those.
00:06:37 But that was hugely invested as far as, you know, what I put into being able to accomplish
00:06:43 that, because it’s it’s over the top, which means the other stuff had to shift and I had
00:06:47 to learn.
00:06:49 There’s so many things that came into place to pull that off.
00:06:52 And so, yeah, last March, two days before the world shut down, I did it.
00:06:56 It was supposed to be at the largest equipment exhibition in the world down in San Diego
00:07:02 as an event.
00:07:03 And that got shut down a week beforehand, obviously.
00:07:05 So we moved to let’s do it in my gym and invite people.
00:07:08 And that was on a Saturday and Thursday or Friday, they limited it to twenty five people
00:07:11 for gatherings.
00:07:12 I did it on Saturday and then Monday, everything shut down.
00:07:17 So it was kind of surreal for timing wise.
00:07:20 Right.
00:07:21 And so if I hadn’t done it, it would have never got done like because I I’d pushed to
00:07:25 the limit.
00:07:26 I couldn’t come back and do it.
00:07:27 It was at the total limitation of my capabilities.
00:07:30 So I’m pretty I’m pretty proud of it.
00:07:32 And the last piece was a every one of these feats along the way.
00:07:36 I collaborated with a charity that I believed in.
00:07:39 And there was a lot of those tied to my life story, which we probably will get into.
00:07:45 So it was threefold.
00:07:46 So that inspiration piece, inspiration, motivation, walking the walk and showing like just these
00:07:55 methodologies that a guy that had to learn to walk again can do something like this with
00:07:59 no back pain.
00:08:00 So if you if you there is a way.
00:08:03 And the third one is is to provide awareness and recognition around a lot of key charities.
00:08:09 So so your heart was in this journey, but also your mind is just you’re like a scholar
00:08:14 of strength, a scientist of strength, an engineer of strength for reps do a thousand pounds
00:08:20 squat and deadlift.
00:08:23 Let’s first talk through the actual day you did it.
00:08:27 What does it take to lift that much for reps?
00:08:32 The day of is really easy.
00:08:37 The really the lift itself.
00:08:40 Other than a few seconds is really easy and not challenging.
00:08:44 People always ask me, what was it like?
00:08:46 How beat up were you after that?
00:08:47 And the deadlift.
00:08:48 And the simple fact is, it was easy.
00:08:51 The work to get there was horrendous.
00:08:55 So so even the psychology of the day you weren’t there was not a fear.
00:09:00 There was not a nervousness.
00:09:01 There is not a doubt in your mind.
00:09:03 There were certainly doubts on that day from some training history.
00:09:07 So there was some major breaks to my confidence in the couple months leading up where I had
00:09:14 issues with passing out under the bar.
00:09:17 So completely losing consciousness.
00:09:19 And this was on weight less than a thousand pounds even.
00:09:22 So that was like all this buildup in me going, what if what if I think I have this resolved?
00:09:31 But what if I get up there and I can’t even do a rep?
00:09:34 How embarrassing will this be that I’ve been talking about this and planning for this for
00:09:38 so long?
00:09:41 But outside of that, I knew I could do it.
00:09:43 In fact, I wanted to do even more even up to the second rep.
00:09:48 Training is about, you know, working into a fatigue state.
00:09:52 So you’re building an amount of fatigue in your system.
00:09:58 And then when you let off of it, that’s when you get a compensation.
00:10:00 And that’s how you stairstep training.
00:10:02 This is periodization.
00:10:03 But leading into a big event, you’re accumulating this massive amount of fatigue.
00:10:08 And so I was performing at a level that I could do it.
00:10:11 And so I knew I was going to be able to on me because then you then you give yourself
00:10:15 that window to be able to recover and supercompensate and be able to do a little bit more.
00:10:21 So like that first rep when I did it strengthwise, I went, I could do this for five reps like
00:10:26 it went through my head.
00:10:27 I’m like feeling I mean, it was easy and it was fast and it felt like amazing.
00:10:32 And I’m like, I’m going to crush this.
00:10:34 And then set rep to the realization kicked in as like, oh, this is for reps with a thousand
00:10:40 pounds on your back.
00:10:41 And you’re fatiguing just like and then the third one was every last thing I could muster
00:10:47 to just finish.
00:10:48 I mean, I just barely got it done because it’s the strength is like there.
00:10:53 But like that capacity to be able to manage all those resources for that amount of time
00:10:58 because not just leg strength when we’re talking about this stuff.
00:11:01 So what does it take to go from the from I don’t know what like from five hundred to
00:11:07 a thousand?
00:11:09 That feels like a journey that’s like exponential.
00:11:12 It’s it gets exponentially harder.
00:11:15 It does.
00:11:16 In the early 2000s, like I said, I started lifting in 1988.
00:11:19 But my first meet in the early 2000s, my my max deadlift was five twenty three and my
00:11:25 first squat was five hundred and fifty.
00:11:28 So that’s the heck of a journey.
00:11:31 It is a journey for people that like to lift.
00:11:35 What should they understand about the difference between doing five hundred and a thousand in
00:11:40 terms of the actual lift that you were experiencing that day in terms of the mechanics, in terms
00:11:44 of all the things you have to be like the neurological adaptation?
00:11:47 You mentioned the breathing, the core strength, like techniques, like little tricks, psychological
00:11:55 tricks, anything that kind of stands out to you.
00:11:58 The level of intent and the opportunity for error are at a different level.
00:12:04 So just the minutest changes of position by quarter inch, half inch can be make or break
00:12:12 at that level.
00:12:13 So these things, everything gets amplified.
00:12:15 So the ability to start with having the pelvis just in the right orientation to the diaphragm
00:12:21 before we start initiating what we call the the eccentric loading of the abdominal cavity
00:12:27 to create this intra abdominal pressure of working against this outward expansion, working
00:12:32 against the outer sheath of abdominal thoracolumbar musculature obliques, causing the co contraction
00:12:40 at the pelvic floor, all this stuff and how you cue that because you can’t think about
00:12:44 all this stuff.
00:12:45 You need to break it down and distill and practice to like it’s one simple cue that
00:12:49 we now lock down and control this torso stability because this is what these fundamental movements
00:12:56 are about, is being able to control our spinal mechanics and then now be able to maintain
00:13:02 that while articulating the joints around that through a range of motion and then using
00:13:09 the main power drivers.
00:13:11 So in this instance, both instances, it’s the, you know, the hip complex to generate
00:13:17 that power and transfer it from how we’re rooted and connected to the floor through
00:13:21 to the distal end, you know, which would be the barbell on the shoulder.
00:13:25 You know, there’s a couple key concepts.
00:13:28 So one is that what we just talked through is how to actually maintain that stability.
00:13:32 So if you have either the diaphragm, so which is connected at the rib cage.
00:13:37 So out of alignment in any position, it needs to be in alignment with the pelvic, the pelvis.
00:13:44 So those two in opposition.
00:13:45 So this is simple engineering here because what we’re going to do is eccentrically load
00:13:50 this.
00:13:51 We’re going to use the diaphragm just like you would in a diaphragm pump where it’s going
00:13:54 to press down on all the tissue in there.
00:13:57 So we’re not using breath.
00:13:58 So our breath was actually a lot of times a default pattern when people do that because
00:14:02 they’ll bring it into their chest and raise their rib cage.
00:14:06 So what we want to do is just initiate the diaphragm air can be used as well over the
00:14:11 top at the final to create just a little bit more downward pressure.
00:14:15 But if we have out of alignment there, we have a pressure leak where it’s going to be
00:14:22 push out the front or the rear if you’re either inflection or extension.
00:14:25 All right.
00:14:27 And then that causes this co contraction and all this pressure of the organs essentially
00:14:32 against outward against all those tissue for the co contraction as well as surrounding
00:14:37 the spine to be able to stabilize that.
00:14:39 And then it puts all the muscles on both sides of the body in what we call the best length
00:14:45 tension relationship.
00:14:47 So if you think about a curl and we reach our arm out at the extended length, our bicep
00:14:52 is not as strong and then all the way in the curl position, it’s not in strong.
00:14:56 There’s somewhere in here that’s this control of both.
00:14:59 And so when you’re sitting there arched or bent over, we have muscles that are past either
00:15:05 one of those ranges.
00:15:06 So they’ve got a lot of tension, which then will create relaxation on the other side.
00:15:09 Right.
00:15:10 So we want to have an all of that needs to be working.
00:15:12 And now the next important thing is the foot.
00:15:16 So it’s actually this connection to the ground and how we’re actually using the foot and
00:15:21 ankle complex to grab and grip this connection to the ground and elicit an effect.
00:15:29 And because of this and then the everything between will naturally kind of do what it
00:15:33 needs to do.
00:15:35 So people like to focus on it, knee position or how far out their hips are or all this
00:15:40 other stuff, which is outputs of this.
00:15:44 So if we control the torso and the knee, the only thing that can happen from that point
00:15:49 is for the squat to happen.
00:15:52 All right.
00:15:54 So this allows us to use this massive, you know, the hip complex for all the muscles
00:15:59 around that that are built to drive through hip extension to complete the squat.
00:16:04 I did actually miss one thing in there.
00:16:06 So this torso people often miss the lat is a spinal stabilizer as well.
00:16:11 So that’s key in controlling function at the the T.L. Junction, which is just above the
00:16:17 lumbar spine.
00:16:18 So kind of right opposite where your sternum is and you’ll see people kind of roll over
00:16:22 sometimes like an Olympic squad or something like that, where they lose position.
00:16:26 And that’s often because they’re close grip because you can’t engage the lats very well
00:16:29 that way and they’re pushing up in the bar.
00:16:31 But you want to be able to drive and pull the bar to your center.
00:16:34 And that’s going to create and use the lats now to drive and connect the shoulder into
00:16:40 this.
00:16:41 We’re kind of compressing and tightening all this stuff towards that center to create that
00:16:44 entire torso stability.
00:16:46 So I was using torso stability, not just core stability in my conversation earlier.
00:16:52 Torsus.
00:16:53 OK, so there’s all these like modules of the body then connected to the grounding with
00:16:59 like your feet on the ground.
00:17:02 Everything you’re speaking to.
00:17:04 How do you work each of those modules?
00:17:06 Is this over time you kind of develop the feel that ultimately boils down to this one
00:17:11 simple cue that you mentioned?
00:17:13 Or do you can you like literally study each particular module in yourself and see how
00:17:18 it affects the lift?
00:17:20 So the best way and I believe it’s because I hate just like people getting out and just
00:17:23 doing just movement stuff and not actually adding load because we only adapt when there’s
00:17:29 load.
00:17:30 Maybe we can get some, you know, some proprioception or awareness of position and other stuff,
00:17:34 doing some some corrective patterns and other stuff.
00:17:38 But this is basic physiology is that there must be an imposed demand for us to have adaptation.
00:17:46 And this is mental.
00:17:47 This is emotional.
00:17:48 This is all these areas.
00:17:50 But and people miss that.
00:17:52 So I prefer to be able to look at a person and this is our methodology and do the assessment
00:17:59 in any basic loaded movement.
00:18:01 So with developing an eye for that, you can actually see and go, OK, we’ve got a fault
00:18:05 pattern right here in the foot and use a cue or a set of cues.
00:18:09 Doesn’t really matter till we find the one that works and bring that.
00:18:12 And now we know we want to simplify this stuff.
00:18:14 I just walk through.
00:18:15 That sounds really complicated.
00:18:16 And it it is if we try to break down and distill it all.
00:18:18 But like, let’s just find the basic stuff that gets us in the range, start working and
00:18:22 then find the next as we add load.
00:18:25 Now we find where’s our next area that we’re starting to fault that and then go there again
00:18:29 next.
00:18:30 So this is what we do, what we teach in our educational platform.
00:18:32 So we are the only I believe everybody wants to do a lot of these like assessments, you
00:18:39 know, on a bench, on a table body.
00:18:41 And it’s like, no, let’s let’s go squat.
00:18:42 Let’s go deadlift.
00:18:43 If you do strongman and it’s a yoke carry, let’s yoke carry because these are basic human
00:18:47 fundamentals.
00:18:48 It’s not powerlifting like this is how we function.
00:18:50 This is why we we work with 29 of the 30 major league baseball teams and 90 percent of all
00:18:56 professional sports out there in North America.
00:18:59 Sorry, although we do some work with Tour de France and other stuff as well.
00:19:03 And North America, I do mean hockey, too.
00:19:06 But these principles like, you know, if if the Dodgers won’t bring us in, they’re not
00:19:11 learning how to power lift.
00:19:14 You know, we’re going to obviously will probably be do we do a little bit more shoulder focus
00:19:19 than hip focus with their athletes or their coaches.
00:19:22 We’re usually working with the coaches, not the athletes.
00:19:23 And so you help them.
00:19:25 And then the same thing on yourself to understand the role that these different muscle groups
00:19:29 have.
00:19:30 Yes.
00:19:31 On the holistic.
00:19:32 Yeah.
00:19:33 So it’s all about getting the joints in the appropriate position so that we can do that.
00:19:37 We can manage load so that we’re not putting undue stress on the joint.
00:19:40 We’re getting the proper link tension.
00:19:42 We’re getting these basic fundamental things with the body.
00:19:44 And so the the largest global impact that you will have is through spinal mechanics.
00:19:50 I can’t look at a shoulder if I’m not managing this because it’s your spine.
00:19:55 So for those who are just listening, like I’m arching and then and then flexing, that’s
00:20:00 going to affect shoulder extension, flexion, all these sorts of things.
00:20:03 So it could even affect things down of what’s looking at dorsiflexion issues on the foot.
00:20:08 And then that’s why I go to the foot next, because it has the second largest global impact.
00:20:12 And then from there, now I’m going to look at the big energy drivers, which is the hip
00:20:15 complex, shoulder complex.
00:20:18 And then we can start looking at kind of the peripheral things.
00:20:21 But usually that’s some sort of output of the other.
00:20:23 But the knees, the elbows, the things like that.
00:20:26 So it’s all about getting the stack, which affects neurology.
00:20:30 So let’s talk in engineering terms.
00:20:33 You get in a car, modern car today, and a lot of them will have this traction control
00:20:36 button in there.
00:20:37 And there’s a big misconception that, you know, I’m out and it’s it’s snowy or here
00:20:42 in Austin, only rainy.
00:20:43 Well, it probably doesn’t rain much, but you’re going around a corner, start slipping.
00:20:46 It’s like, oh, it’s going to send the powers from the wheels that are slipping to the ones
00:20:49 that are gripping and keep me from crashing and dying a fiery death.
00:20:53 Well, that’s not how it works.
00:20:55 It’s the exact same.
00:20:56 We’ve got we’ve got the we’ve got the tires, which are our foot, you know, the connection
00:21:01 to the ground.
00:21:02 Right.
00:21:03 We’ve got the power driver, which is, you know, the the engine, the transmission delivering,
00:21:08 you know, the power through it.
00:21:10 And we’ve got the stability or suspension.
00:21:13 And then we have the neurology.
00:21:16 And what the neurology is doing, it’s sensing that we don’t have good stability or loss
00:21:22 of connection somewhere.
00:21:24 And so I need to save you from crashing and hurting yourself.
00:21:27 And so it goes to the engine and says, let’s retard the timing.
00:21:31 Let’s reduce the shift patterns.
00:21:32 And we’re just reducing the power output.
00:21:35 And that’s straight how the human body works.
00:21:38 So when I do this stuff, it’s actually affecting that.
00:21:41 I mean, I can take somebody and do some minute changes with the neck position at the thoracic
00:21:45 outlet.
00:21:46 OK, and immediately see an enhancement in power output.
00:21:51 And I can measure it.
00:21:52 We measure this stuff with velocity devices and see like a 10 percent jump.
00:21:58 And so think about that.
00:21:59 What about all your training through the years where you actually had additional capacity?
00:22:05 But you weren’t using it because your traction control was on.
00:22:09 Now you figure this out stuff and now you start stacking it.
00:22:12 Now you can see so much greater.
00:22:14 So it’s not just injury prevention.
00:22:17 This is performance and additive performance over time.
00:22:22 This is huge.
00:22:23 And people don’t really think about this stuff.
00:22:26 But we can turn that stuff off, which is actually going to also, again, make us make us safer.
00:22:31 But what we want to do is the performance tuned race car.
00:22:33 Do they have a traction control button?
00:22:35 No, they got some amazing tires to grip the ground, a performance tuned suspension, and
00:22:41 that driver is going to put what his foot to the metal.
00:22:43 He’s going to put it to the floor.
00:22:46 OK, that’s a performance vehicle.
00:22:49 That’s what we want to be.
00:22:50 I want to continue on that line.
00:22:52 But first I have to ask, like, how did it feel to accomplish the grand goal?
00:22:56 Oh, my God.
00:22:57 OK, when you just stand back.
00:22:59 Oh, my thousand pounds for reps.
00:23:02 What it feel like?
00:23:04 Anybody can go watch the video online.
00:23:06 It’s well filmed, by the way.
00:23:09 Got me all like excited.
00:23:11 Oh, well, the movies.
00:23:13 So we actually have the final footage of that, the good footage not posted yet.
00:23:17 So it’s literally just an Instagram video or a phone video right now.
00:23:20 The only one online.
00:23:21 Yeah.
00:23:22 It’s on your YouTube channel.
00:23:23 It’s dramatic.
00:23:24 Yes, it is.
00:23:25 Yeah.
00:23:26 Came out just time to the music perfectly, too, which is I listened to some odd music,
00:23:30 which there’s some reason behind that.
00:23:31 OK, but I liked it, though.
00:23:34 It was great.
00:23:35 You’re saying there’s full length footage.
00:23:37 There’s a documentary that’s it’s got a little slowed because of covid, because it’s also
00:23:41 a backstory of the eagle and the dragon.
00:23:44 My book about why I do kind of the things that I’ve done in my life or that’s what I’m
00:23:49 assuming the director is working on.
00:23:51 I don’t really have the control of the movie, right?
00:23:54 But but OK, but the video’s OK.
00:23:58 How did it feel?
00:23:59 How did it feel?
00:24:00 I started crying.
00:24:01 It was overwhelming to have worked so intensely and so long and hard at something that pushed
00:24:10 every ounce of me to the limit that and and I did it.
00:24:15 I’m sorry.
00:24:16 I’m getting a little emotional.
00:24:17 I did exactly what I said I was going to fucking do like and it was it was overpowering.
00:24:23 I mean, I was just crying uncontrollably just with a mixture of I.
00:24:31 I don’t know what the mixture of emotions is hard to explain because it was the completion
00:24:39 of something.
00:24:40 It was a new phase of my life.
00:24:41 I mean, there’s so many things here.
00:24:45 So when you set an impossible goal and you accomplished it, one, two is like on the broader
00:24:50 humanity aspect, like how many humans in this world accomplish perfection in a particular
00:24:58 direction required to do this?
00:25:01 So like you’re basically representing like one little like like little glimmer of excellence
00:25:09 of the human spirit.
00:25:10 There’s always more.
00:25:12 So understand this is a basic fundamental.
00:25:16 You can always do better.
00:25:18 There is no such thing as perfection.
00:25:20 You could always there is always more.
00:25:23 So anytime you reach something, any amazing workout or accomplishment in life, could you
00:25:28 have put more into it?
00:25:29 Could you?
00:25:30 Yes.
00:25:31 But here’s the thing.
00:25:33 I left on my terms.
00:25:37 I said, this is it.
00:25:38 I’m going to work towards I’ve been training for 30 years.
00:25:42 I’m going to do this thing that is like I couldn’t even say that I was going to do it
00:25:45 years before.
00:25:48 I’m going to do it and then I’m done.
00:25:51 I didn’t leave from an injury.
00:25:53 I wasn’t forced.
00:25:54 I wasn’t.
00:25:55 I left on.
00:25:56 I did exactly what I said.
00:25:58 I went to a level that I.
00:26:02 I left on my terms and that’s unique because that’s usually not the case.
00:26:07 Sometimes you kind of either taper out or it doesn’t matter.
00:26:10 I’m talking like anything in life in general, right?
00:26:12 Like you taper out, you fail, you hurt, like you lose.
00:26:17 Like something, you know, you roll into retirement.
00:26:22 You accomplish something truly great and you walked away on your own terms.
00:26:25 Is there a sadness completing something like that?
00:26:30 Because it’s in one perspective, the greatest thing you’ll ever do.
00:26:37 And like when you accomplish such a great height, in some sense, you have to face your
00:26:42 mortality at that point.
00:26:44 So good question, but it is certainly not the greatest thing that I’ll ever do.
00:26:49 The greatest physical street I’ll ever do.
00:26:51 The greatest physical street, yes.
00:26:55 But that was an expression of some of my values and the way that I want to live.
00:27:01 It was a way of expressing it.
00:27:03 So understanding that is hugely fundamental because we do see so many athletes get to
00:27:11 the end of a career and then they fall into a depressive state and struggle with drugs,
00:27:17 alcohol, depression, and so on because they lost how they identified themselves and trying
00:27:23 to figure out where to turn, what to do.
00:27:25 But a big central component of their identity is lost.
00:27:29 So I knew that this was one way to express that and my grand goals have shifted.
00:27:38 They’re shifted to other outlets that allow me to express that.
00:27:41 Like my companies, Kabuki Strength, I’m going to change the face of fitness as well as all
00:27:48 the way through with its integration with clinical medicine and telemedicine.
00:27:52 And I got another five years before even people see what I’m working on, five years in right
00:27:56 now because I had to invent equipment, I have to develop methodologies that we’re talking
00:28:00 about.
00:28:01 I had to do this stuff that ground layer wasn’t done to create a cohesive ecosystem of training
00:28:06 methodology tied to the tools that we’re using today, to the environment, tied to the clinical
00:28:10 practice assessment, tied to the interaction between all those and how that actually needs
00:28:16 to be reframed because so much of this is broken.
00:28:21 But there is sadness.
00:28:24 I won’t deny that.
00:28:26 And the sadness comes in the singularity of focus that I had at that time, the being in
00:28:35 the process.
00:28:36 Not necessarily doing it, but like having being in this place that the rest of the world
00:28:42 kind of fell away from me in those final phases to have something so intense, to have a team
00:28:47 around me so focused on supporting and like it took me a couple of months after that squad.
00:28:52 But I finally one day I woke up and I was like, oh, welcome back to the world.
00:28:59 Like I was in such a mental fog.
00:29:02 Like I was, it took me a while to climb out of that.
00:29:06 But that space, that level of intensity and drive and living and being in that space,
00:29:14 I do miss that.
00:29:15 But I also, I can’t continue that.
00:29:17 I couldn’t continue.
00:29:18 Like there’s a point of like, you push it so hard, the level to try to go from there
00:29:23 is not acceptable for what you, the impacts that’ll have on your life or how you want
00:29:27 to live.
00:29:28 And it was taking away those final, like I had to do extreme things and live in an extreme
00:29:32 way to get there.
00:29:34 You’re just a genius in this whole space of strength and health and almost like biology
00:29:41 that this strength feat is just one representation of that.
00:29:45 But this particular strength, it required that kind of singular focus, which I think,
00:29:51 I don’t know, there’s something beautiful about that singular focus that’s often only
00:29:57 truly perfected in athletics.
00:29:59 I see it with the greatest Olympic athletes as well.
00:30:01 The kind of singular focus required there is incredible.
00:30:04 It’s somehow some of the most beautiful things that humans can do.
00:30:10 And it’s not just that thing.
00:30:11 So that’s the thing.
00:30:12 It’s like, oh, that must be it.
00:30:13 That singularity of focus, it’s not like, here’s it, because it covers a vast array
00:30:18 of stuff.
00:30:19 Like I was working with people, you know, all, well, yeah, all around North America.
00:30:25 I wouldn’t say anybody around the globe, but professionals coming in, working on different
00:30:29 aspects of rehab and, and recovery.
00:30:32 And like, I mean, I’m tapping all sorts of stuff in so many platforms from nutrition
00:30:39 to drugs to, again, like, you know, various Chinese medicine, you know, as far as, you
00:30:47 know.
00:30:48 But also the humans in your life, just love and positivity and just inspiration, all those
00:30:52 kinds of aspects.
00:30:53 I mean, you probably would have done much more if you went outside North America and
00:30:58 talked to some Russians, just between you and I.
00:31:01 Some Russians.
00:31:02 Possibly.
00:31:03 They give you some, I don’t know, there’s some incredible strength athletes in Eastern
00:31:08 Europe.
00:31:09 Absolutely.
00:31:10 I’ve got the best one coming in September to get fixed.
00:31:14 So what do you mean by fixed?
00:31:17 So I’m not sure what his particular issues are, but he has held the all time world record
00:31:21 repeatedly for a long time and he hasn’t competed for some time.
00:31:25 And he just reached out saying he would like to come and have me take a look and see if
00:31:29 I can get him fixed because he needs to return.
00:31:32 Okay.
00:31:33 So it’s more injury centric versus like form and a fundamental centric combination of everything.
00:31:38 Everybody always wants to focus on the output.
00:31:40 How do you give me the fix for that?
00:31:42 But it ties right back into all those other things, right?
00:31:47 But yeah, the Eastern block continued to be a dominant force in regards to athletics and
00:31:53 strength athletes without a doubt.
00:31:56 Some of my big rivals in my competitive days were, that’s who it was.
00:32:01 Rivalry brings out the best in us.
00:32:03 Can you tell me the story of your childhood?
00:32:05 It’s definitely outside the scope of the norm.
00:32:07 Not today, maybe not 150 or 200 years ago, but my parents, highly intelligent people
00:32:15 coming out of the Bay area.
00:32:18 My mom was going to school to be a chemical engineer.
00:32:22 She was a top, top student athlete, graduated out of her school.
00:32:25 My father was a member of Mensa and my stepfather was just a genius, but not able to really
00:32:31 function in society.
00:32:32 But my mom was, she had some demons and some other stuff and just, she just said one day,
00:32:37 she’s like, I just don’t want to be part of society.
00:32:40 She still isn’t, lives out in the desert, but has her minds, but she wanted to figure
00:32:48 out a way to make a life outside of that.
00:32:51 And so that’s where we ended up is up in the mountains in Northern California.
00:32:56 And a lot of that was them trying to get into successfully growing marijuana, which back
00:33:05 in that wasn’t legal back then, highly illegal.
00:33:08 And in fact, those areas were, some of the areas where we lived were quite dangerous.
00:33:11 So there’s a documentary Murder Mountain that came out recently.
00:33:15 If you watch that, you’ll tie into my book, just the understanding of the stuff that I
00:33:22 was talking about dealing with serial killers, human trafficking, police corruption, murderers,
00:33:31 like just how real that stuff is if it doesn’t capture you from the book.
00:33:35 The book, by the way, is the Eagle and the Dragon.
00:33:38 Yeah.
00:33:39 Thank you.
00:33:40 Yeah.
00:33:41 I’m a terrible salesperson.
00:33:42 Like I told you.
00:33:43 But a good, it’s a good title.
00:33:46 I don’t know if you came up with it, but, so yeah, we’ll talk about that anyway.
00:33:50 We’re living by a stream off a meadow.
00:33:54 There’s no roads into where you have to hike in.
00:33:56 And we’ve got beams lashed into the trees up above us because that’s where our bedding
00:34:00 is.
00:34:01 Cause there’s rattlesnake dens all around and six years old, I’m being taught how to
00:34:07 capture and handle live rattlesnakes because that’s what I need to do to be safe.
00:34:13 And you can imagine six years old, sitting there with a live rattlesnake in your hand,
00:34:16 grabbing it, you know, by the side of the head, controlling so it can’t, can’t bite
00:34:20 you.
00:34:21 And it’s just wrapping itself around your arm and you’re staring at like, it’s only
00:34:24 intent is right then is to kill you.
00:34:28 Like that’s it, right?
00:34:31 You want to take a bath.
00:34:32 It’s filling up the jug in the stream and setting it out on the rocks during the, during
00:34:36 the sun.
00:34:37 So you dump it over your head and you know, not all the living was that way.
00:34:40 You know, good part was similar to that tent living, living in a 16 foot trailer with a
00:34:46 family of six, which is not much bigger than the space that we’re sitting here.
00:34:51 So we’re talking hard winters with feet of snow on the ground, nowhere to go.
00:34:56 I’m living in the back of the pickup truck and just a standard sleeping bag that we get
00:35:01 from the Salvation Army, not the, not the blow zero.
00:35:04 So I’m I’m, I’m not sleeping well.
00:35:07 There’s living in homes that were maybe condemned.
00:35:10 There’s no, no doors even on them, no electricity or running water or one or the other or both.
00:35:16 And sometimes a little bit better by the time we got to high school we had a mobile home.
00:35:21 So my stepfather had won a disability payment cause he had a broken arm that whole time
00:35:25 from a accident a long time ago and finally got an award and got a down payment on this
00:35:31 mobile home that didn’t have again, doors on the inside.
00:35:35 It did have running water, did have electricity, didn’t have a kitchen, you know, the windows
00:35:38 would crank close and open, but they wouldn’t close all the way.
00:35:42 So the trim them in with a plastic to be able to try to protect from the elements.
00:35:47 That was my environment, like learning how to forge for mushrooms.
00:35:51 I mean, there were summers I would send and my parents would be out, they were in the
00:35:55 drug trade earlier.
00:35:56 We got taken by the, by the police and put into foster care for a while, which ties into
00:36:05 some of the stories with human trafficking.
00:36:07 And honestly it’s in my book, but it’s really hard for me to talk about that stuff and obviously
00:36:15 not all that’s in the book.
00:36:16 So but they got us back and we moved to Oregon and they stayed out of the drug trade from
00:36:22 that time to ensure that they didn’t lose us again, but quickly we kind of fell back
00:36:28 into the same thing.
00:36:29 So at that point it was learning about geology and starting to do mining and firewood cutting,
00:36:36 but mostly the mining because Pat’s broken arm chainsaw made a little tough.
00:36:40 If you remember just the sequence of moments, do you, are you haunted by the darker moments
00:36:47 of your childhood?
00:36:48 Do you remember moments of simple joy and happiness?
00:36:53 Outside of the living around dangerous people and the interactions that came from that,
00:37:00 we were a family.
00:37:01 Like we were a cohesive unit battling against the world together.
00:37:05 We spent all our time together, work, play.
00:37:09 I was there.
00:37:10 I was helping raise my, my siblings or I was working with them and you know, it was a constant,
00:37:17 like I said, we were very physically active.
00:37:18 So you know, I had that in my upbringing, um, that plug for my shoe company, barefoot,
00:37:24 B E A R I ran around the wilderness and bare feet all the time, you know, but it was, I
00:37:29 had a lot of great moments and I’m thankful for a lot of that childhood once we take out
00:37:35 the trauma and the other stuff associated with it, right?
00:37:39 And so the connection that I have with my sisters, um, is, is, is huge.
00:37:45 Um, that goes a bit further to cause I am kind of like a, a little bit of a father figure
00:37:50 because I was at home raising them and then later I took custody of them, uh, while I
00:37:54 was going to school because the environment at home deteriorated further.
00:37:58 Their stepfather, stepfather, like I said, was, he wasn’t capable of managing life.
00:38:03 And uh, my mom had a mental breakdown and took off to Montana and he descended into
00:38:08 madness even worse, uh, actually took my, my 13 year old sister and kicked her out in
00:38:13 the middle of winter, a couple of feet of snow on the ground because he thought she
00:38:17 stole his favorite cereal bowl, um, type.
00:38:21 So that’s when I took in and I was going to college, putting myself through college and
00:38:26 I started taking custody of my sisters and raising them.
00:38:28 So anyway, we’re still like very, very tight family.
00:38:34 Um, it took, there was a few years later in life, like that the connection with my mother
00:38:40 was kind of broken.
00:38:41 Um, I didn’t speak to her for years because of her basically abandoning my sisters and
00:38:46 me having to come in.
00:38:47 But that we’ve worked through that as best we can.
00:38:51 So you anger on your part?
00:38:53 It wasn’t, there might’ve been some anger.
00:38:56 Um.
00:38:57 Did you always love her?
00:38:58 Yes.
00:38:59 And I still do.
00:39:00 And I’m so, she’s taught me basically everything I know about strength and perseverance and
00:39:07 living life on your terms and being able to create that.
00:39:11 And so much of what I am is from that, right?
00:39:16 We’ve all had to learn to be okay with the way she is because she is just blunt, but
00:39:24 you know, she’s the one that figured out that the human trafficking situation and got, uh,
00:39:31 got the da involved and got all the, she’s the one that I’ve learned a lot from her.
00:39:41 And uh.
00:39:42 Did you inherit some of the demons?
00:39:43 Oh, most certainly.
00:39:45 And I, it’s something I’ve continued like in my father’s side of has been really tough
00:39:52 on that because some of it is just based genetic as well.
00:39:55 So my, my stepfather made I think six or seven attempts on his life during his lifetime.
00:40:01 One of those in front of me, uh, his mother blew her head off with a shotgun.
00:40:07 Uh, her brother jumped out a window in LA, uh, their father did something similar and
00:40:13 I don’t know how far back it goes because there is no family except for me and my children.
00:40:18 You spoke about going through depression yourself.
00:40:22 Yeah.
00:40:23 Can you, um, talk about some of the darker moments of that?
00:40:26 Have you ever like many in your family, have you ever considered suicide?
00:40:31 Yes I have.
00:40:33 Yes I have.
00:40:35 You’ve achieved a lot of exceptional things in your life.
00:40:39 Can you talk about those early days of depression and how you overcame it?
00:40:45 Yeah.
00:40:46 So the things that I did that people give me accolades for are the things that I did
00:40:52 selfishly to save myself.
00:40:55 The things like taking custody of my sisters, being the person that everybody around, you
00:41:03 know, the, the important people relied on the fact that I had to step to the plate and
00:41:09 be present and be that person because if I failed, they failed.
00:41:18 They would be like the people that I grew up with that are dead or in prison or on drugs
00:41:26 and they’re either way to one of those, right?
00:41:30 That’s where everybody ended and I wasn’t going to let that happen.
00:41:33 What about saving yourself?
00:41:35 And so that’s how in those early days, that’s how I did it.
00:41:39 Not saying it’s the best approach, but it was survivor mentality.
00:41:42 It was, I can’t selfishly do that because I have them to take care of, right?
00:41:49 And then that continued where I would keep putting myself in these leadership roles or
00:41:53 other things and just always being this person that was at the center, at the hub that forced
00:42:02 me to be there.
00:42:04 And so it’s only in the more recent, you know, last decade or so that I have had to really
00:42:10 learn how to come and start confronting some of those demons and think, man, why is the
00:42:17 guy so successful?
00:42:18 Like, I mean, and we haven’t talked about all the stuff that I’ve done, but like I’ve
00:42:23 seen a lot of success in both business, leadership, athletics, academics, entrepreneurship, all
00:42:32 these sorts of things, right?
00:42:34 But if it wasn’t for having kids and the same being in the position, I wouldn’t be here.
00:42:42 And that’s just, that’s the reality of it.
00:42:45 And I’m learning to come and manage those as best I can.
00:42:51 Learning to meditate into those things and really feel what the driver is so I can get
00:42:56 to those root understanding and having some guidance doing so.
00:43:01 Like if you’ve got mental health issues, this isn’t something that you need to tackle on
00:43:05 your own.
00:43:06 Like having a professional that can help guide you on that introspective journey is something
00:43:11 like, it’s not like, hey, I’m big, tough guy.
00:43:14 I can handle everything.
00:43:17 You know?
00:43:18 That’s fascinating that you saved yourself.
00:43:23 That’s quite powerful to save yourself by having others depend on you.
00:43:28 And so you can’t fail.
00:43:30 You can’t fuck it up.
00:43:32 And that’s a reason to keep moving forward.
00:43:35 But on the flip side, that’s not addressing the darkness.
00:43:40 It’s not.
00:43:42 And it probably not a sustainable strategy either, right?
00:43:45 So I recognize these things.
00:43:47 I don’t know.
00:43:50 Perhaps it is sustainable.
00:43:51 Perhaps that, I mean, there’s something beautiful about giving yourself basically in service
00:43:57 of others and thereby creating purpose.
00:44:02 And then it’s almost like fake it till you make it and then you make it eventually.
00:44:07 That is purpose though.
00:44:09 That is purpose.
00:44:10 I mean, you have to, to me, life is about taking your cup and how you choose to pour
00:44:17 it out.
00:44:18 How you choose to give.
00:44:19 What is your purpose?
00:44:20 What is that connection with everybody around you?
00:44:23 This is, that’s the intent.
00:44:26 That’s the life.
00:44:27 That’s what life is about.
00:44:28 How are you going to help those around you?
00:44:31 How are you going to help the world?
00:44:32 Your purpose is right here, figuring out what this is and then how to do that.
00:44:37 But at the same time, you can’t let that run dry.
00:44:40 So you have to make sure that you’re filling that up.
00:44:44 That’s the other side, right?
00:44:46 That’s the other side.
00:44:47 Yeah.
00:44:48 We’ll return to your engineering degree, which you’re obviously scientifically engineering
00:44:52 minded, which is fascinating.
00:44:55 Your book is titled the Eagle and the Dragon.
00:44:58 What do the Eagle and the Dragon symbolize?
00:45:02 They’re pretty big symbols for me.
00:45:03 In fact, that covers my entire body as a tattoo.
00:45:07 So the first one I had done at around 19 years old.
00:45:11 And so this is, or started at 19.
00:45:14 It’s an eagle that covers my entire front, you know, my stomach, rib cage, and one that
00:45:21 was on my back that covered most of my back.
00:45:23 And there’s chained at the, well, at the claw, I guess.
00:45:29 And the chain wraps down around and attaches to my ankle and there’s a shackle there.
00:45:33 And so this was something that I had done at that age because it was, to me, it was
00:45:37 a representation of your potential, your strengths, your abilities that you can fly to whatever
00:45:46 height that you want in this world.
00:45:48 The only thing holding you back at the end of the day is yourself.
00:45:53 And this was, I hadn’t necessarily accomplished a whole lot at that time.
00:45:57 I mean, I was valedictorian for high school, small high school.
00:46:02 Does that even count?
00:46:03 I was a state level wrestler.
00:46:06 This was my belief.
00:46:08 And you sense that there was a potential in you and the only thing that could stop you
00:46:13 from realizing that potential was yourself.
00:46:15 That’s right.
00:46:16 That’s a heck of a tattoo to get, by the way, at 19, but 40 hours went into that thing.
00:46:24 It shows you got some guts.
00:46:26 And then the next tattoo, so I only have two, I had done in 2015, 2016 when I, so at this
00:46:38 point in my life, so I had done that.
00:46:41 I had flown to whatever heights, right?
00:46:42 So I had, I had proven to myself and maybe done what I thought I needed to do to show
00:46:50 the world that this poor kid from the sticks, this kid growing up in the mountains with
00:46:56 nothing could achieve the American dream.
00:46:59 I was a corporate executive sought after that I’d come in, I’d fix companies, I’d turn around
00:47:05 and prep them for sale.
00:47:07 I’d take a company and grow it from a regional to a national to a global presence.
00:47:11 I did this in the automotive manufacturing, aerospace manufacturing, high tech, heavy
00:47:16 industry and I had a house with a white picket fence.
00:47:21 I was a successful athlete with all time world records.
00:47:25 I owned a gym on the side where I coached people and I had a comfortable marriage that
00:47:33 everything was hunky dory with no arguments at home and I walked away from all of it.
00:47:40 I left everything behind except for my kids.
00:47:45 I wanted to chase what I was meant to do and chase what I was capable of doing.
00:47:56 I wanted to become a better version of myself, but very intentfully and that’s what I did.
00:48:06 I sold, I had multiple homes, sold my homes.
00:48:11 I cashed in all my retirement that I’d earned for 20, nearly 20 years and I lost all that.
00:48:19 I leveraged myself millions of dollars of personal debt so that if I failed, there was
00:48:25 no way out.
00:48:26 Even going back to that old career that I did well, I’d be living in an apartment the
00:48:30 rest of my life paying it off.
00:48:33 Old question, people questioned me at the time because I had a comfortable, easy marriage
00:48:38 and I chose to ask for a divorce and I ended up living in an apartment for a couple of
00:48:45 years with no income, selling off every last thing that I had except for my two vehicles
00:48:51 that I built and with my kids and I started my businesses to help people live a better
00:49:01 quality of life, to get them out of pain, to help them live better through strength,
00:49:06 to realize that stress, demand, those things, they don’t have to be the thing that if you
00:49:14 look back, made you had the bad back, made you have the bad deeds, but they do the opposite.
00:49:18 They get you out of pain and then I started working my book to hit on those other things,
00:49:23 the mental, the emotional, maybe even spiritual, I don’t touch on that one too much in there,
00:49:28 but it’s all the same, that things that happen around you, to you, like maybe they’re bad,
00:49:35 I can’t take away that, but why can’t you use what you have of it to become a stronger
00:49:41 and better person, to become more resilient, to be able to take the things that you don’t
00:49:45 know that are coming in the future and so this is very intentful and that’s what the
00:49:50 second long winded answer in your question here.
00:49:52 The dragon.
00:49:53 The dragon.
00:49:54 The dragon is an Ouroboros and so it is, it circles my entire upper body, my shoulders,
00:50:00 my back, my chest, everything, it’s right here, there’s this big dragon head and its
00:50:04 tail is right there in its mouth that’s eating itself and it may sound a bit graphic or whatever,
00:50:11 but it is, it’s the eating of the old becoming the new, it is the purposeful reinvention
00:50:17 of oneself, it is the deciding, not realizing just your potential, but deciding specifically
00:50:23 who you want to be in this fucking world and becoming that person.
00:50:29 Can you comment on the value and the power of putting a flame to your old life, your
00:50:39 old self, just destroying all of it as you walk into the new life, did you have to do
00:50:47 that?
00:50:48 I don’t recommend this, by the way, because when you put yourself in no way out, there
00:50:53 is no way out, okay?
00:50:57 You got to really, but I can be an overconfident individual at times and I live through extremes.
00:51:07 I think it’s a great way of actually finding your real values and how you want to live,
00:51:13 honestly, to chase having absolutely perfect squat technique, but chase putting every freaking
00:51:20 thing that you’ve got in it, which most people would say, those are opposite, those are diametrically
00:51:24 opposed.
00:51:27 I wanted a better home life, I wanted to do more in the world through my work and the
00:51:36 burning the bridges mentality is not necessarily the best.
00:51:41 There was some temperament in that though, because I was slow to make the shift for a
00:51:47 long time because I’d been thinking about doing it, but I was thinking about doing it
00:51:51 in a healthcare perspective.
00:51:52 I’m going to go back to school to be a surgeon or a physical therapist or a Cairo because
00:51:55 that’s where all my research and stuff was in this human movement and rehab and recovery.
00:52:02 This is the mentors that I’ve been developing were the best in the world in these things,
00:52:06 in these disciplines, those were my friends, but I wasn’t able to compromise my family’s
00:52:15 certain quality of life.
00:52:16 I wanted to keep that.
00:52:17 So it was slow and hard for me to make that transition, but I didn’t do it until I had
00:52:22 a platform built enough that those first few years I did have an income, I was able to
00:52:26 make enough from the business until it grew so fast that I needed so much more needed
00:52:31 to come in.
00:52:32 The living in the apartment piece and doing all that, that was actually a couple of years
00:52:36 into that process, maybe like two years.
00:52:39 I’m with you on that.
00:52:41 So I’m actually going through that very process now.
00:52:44 I put everything, I quit everything, gave away everything and starting a new and unfortunately
00:52:51 or fortunately this podcast somehow became quite popular.
00:52:57 So it’s getting in the way of my burning everything to the ground.
00:53:01 But in that it’s a source of joy.
00:53:03 But the main thing I’m after is the similar project as you is building a business sense
00:53:10 of joy.
00:53:11 So this, this is the point I want to drive home right now, right now.
00:53:15 Because when I say burn, I learned that burning the bridges works because that’s how I had
00:53:21 to succeed when I was earlier.
00:53:23 The bridges weren’t burnt.
00:53:24 They didn’t exist.
00:53:26 There was no couch to go home to.
00:53:27 There was no, there was no fall back plan and it forced me and gave me the confidence
00:53:31 to know that I can pull it off.
00:53:34 But I don’t encourage people because there’s so much out there of this hustle porn and
00:53:39 other stuff going just grind, just go after it, get in and start your, like you’ll get
00:53:44 there and it’s all about the output to make money, to be somebody, to do this.
00:53:49 And I’ll tell you what, that is some short term motivation right there.
00:53:52 I feel like dropping a few swear words, but
00:53:54 You’re always welcome.
00:53:57 We’ve already done a few, so we’ll bounce it out.
00:54:03 That is short term.
00:54:04 That is not going to keep you going.
00:54:06 This need, if you’re going to go that approach, it needs to be because this is your North
00:54:11 star.
00:54:12 There’s going to be so much hard work.
00:54:14 There’s going to be years of just pushing through where your question, not only is everybody
00:54:19 around you questioning you and your family’s questioning you, you’re questioning yourself
00:54:23 going, man, I don’t know if I can pull this off.
00:54:25 You’re going to be stressed.
00:54:26 You’re going to be pulled to the max.
00:54:28 If somebody comes up to me and says, should I start a business?
00:54:30 I’m going to say no.
00:54:34 And oh, you’re supposed to motivate me.
00:54:36 If you need me to motivate you, this is the wrong damn approach for you.
00:54:39 This is going to be hard.
00:54:40 This is going to be harder than you expect, even with me telling you this.
00:54:45 And so it better damn well be worth it.
00:54:49 This better be your North fucking star.
00:54:52 This better live and be a way for you to be able to articulate or realize those values
00:54:59 that you want to live.
00:55:01 This isn’t something to make money.
00:55:04 This is a way for you to live the life and be able to share the values that you have
00:55:09 with the world.
00:55:11 And that’s what it is.
00:55:12 And if you don’t have that, which is going to give you joy, then we can walk away.
00:55:20 This is not some way to make some money and be known.
00:55:23 I mean, this, this includes both like simple day to day joy and also deep meaning the whole
00:55:29 thing.
00:55:30 It allows you to overcome all the, all the pain along the way.
00:55:34 But I got to say, I mean, it’s a difficult thing because you run a business.
00:55:40 This podcast and a lot of things I do research wise is full of joy, but it’s simple.
00:55:46 Running a business is hard.
00:55:51 So it’s something that I’m very hesitant about in that to almost push back a little bit.
00:55:58 I think if I do get the guts to start the business, it will not be because I’m not choosing
00:56:06 a more joyful life because I’m already truly happy.
00:56:11 The reason I’ll choose is because I just can’t help it.
00:56:14 There’s this, I’ve always had this dream and I know it’s going to lead to suffering and
00:56:19 I know it’s going to be a life that has less happiness in it.
00:56:24 As sad as this to say, but it won’t be, it won’t be less happiness because we talk about
00:56:32 this cup and where you choose to pour it and what you choose to do with it.
00:56:36 And when you look back on things, the things that are going to give you the most joy, the
00:56:41 most proud, the things that are going to stand out in your life that you really remember
00:56:45 are going to be those days and your, those years you struggle, you’re going to look back
00:56:51 on 10 years later and go, fuck, those were the glory days.
00:56:57 Those were the glory days.
00:56:59 And it won’t feel like it at the time.
00:57:02 So that’s what life’s made of.
00:57:04 And so this is your, this is your opportunity.
00:57:07 You feel that.
00:57:08 So right now you’ve got this, when you think about it, you’ve got this little thing twisting
00:57:11 up in your gut, right?
00:57:12 It’s like, it’s a mixture of anxiety and fear as well as excitement in that is that’s your
00:57:19 signal that this is your opportunity for that personal growth, the challenge yourself.
00:57:24 This is your going for a run or working out in the heat.
00:57:27 It’s it’s those things.
00:57:29 It is your opportunity to go back.
00:57:32 Maybe it even fails.
00:57:33 Maybe it even fails, but by turning into that, you’re going to learn so much and it’s going
00:57:39 to make you so much better.
00:57:41 And it’s the path that you should take when you have this stuff rolling around in there.
00:57:47 And I don’t, it could just be a hard conversation with your partner or your boss.
00:57:53 It could be taking on a project that, you know, you know, that your boss has thrown
00:57:59 out to the team and you’re like, Oh, I’m going to hide in the back.
00:58:01 I don’t want that one.
00:58:02 And it’s like, maybe, maybe you do.
00:58:05 Maybe it’s going back to school.
00:58:08 Maybe it’s making that career move that you always wanted, but you’re just a, you’re just
00:58:11 afraid of all these things.
00:58:16 Those are your opportunity for you to turn into that.
00:58:21 It is your workout.
00:58:22 It is your practice because if you don’t, you’ll get soft and who knows what’s coming
00:58:28 and you’re not going to be ready for it.
00:58:30 And it’s going to run right over the top of you because you’re going to be weak.
00:58:35 You’re going to be soft.
00:58:37 There’s some aspect in which choosing that hard path is actually the, the way to arrive
00:58:42 at the richest kind of happiness, the greatest fulfillment.
00:58:48 That’s the funny thing about just the human.
00:58:50 Just make sure you’re filling the cup as you’re going through it and not pouring it all out.
00:58:53 So that’s the part to figure out, right?
00:58:56 Sure.
00:58:57 Well, life is short anyway.
00:58:58 Eventually, eventually the cup will be empty.
00:59:03 So maybe time the refilling of the cup correctly so you maximize the little time you got.
00:59:09 Let me talk to you about strength a little bit first, high level.
00:59:15 What are the differences in the different disciplines of strength?
00:59:17 So power lifting, we talked about maybe just to clarify for people, power lifting, Olympic
00:59:22 lifting, just regular gym fitness, bodybuilding, doing curls in front of the mirror for hours
00:59:29 like I do.
00:59:30 What’s, what’s the difference between all of these?
00:59:32 Oh, and also strong man.
00:59:35 Every one of those, as far as the athletic disciplines are different qualities.
00:59:42 So we want to think about things as terms of quality.
00:59:45 So there’s strength, there’s power, there’s endurance, there’s the ability to be coordinated
00:59:53 and athletic.
00:59:55 There’s all these things and they’re different, they’re different qualities.
00:59:58 So your training as it relates to that is how you cycle in the development of those qualities.
01:00:05 What we want to think about is there’s a lot of different frames of thought, some very
01:00:09 classical, maybe not classical Russian approach because there’s a lot of different approach
01:00:14 from the Eastern block, but one of the ones is developing all the qualities at once, focusing
01:00:19 on building those more of a periodization effect would be focusing on one quality at
01:00:26 a time or one quality while maintaining other qualities and then shifting that around.
01:00:32 So it’s just going to be a little different based on what the output is and what the desired.
01:00:37 So like powerlifting is actually, power is the wrong word.
01:00:40 There’s actually no power in it.
01:00:42 It’s just brute, it’s, it’s strength, um, application of force, um, Olympic lifting
01:00:48 would actually be a better name for powerlifting because that is more explosive development.
01:00:55 There’s um, strongman is again, now we’re getting a little bit more athletic.
01:01:00 It’s equipment based on the implements and stuff that are used, how fast you can move
01:01:04 your feet and run mixed with more endurance, but still very strength focused.
01:01:09 And there’s some things with strongman that is straight.
01:01:11 Like each one of these is very also focused on different genetic dispositions.
01:01:18 So actually if you look at the history of sports, you’ll find that they’re a lot of
01:01:21 times based on different populations and it sounds like it’s very unPC, but like a Highland
01:01:27 games, um, they’ve got deep, deeper hip sockets that are shallow.
01:01:31 So you’re going to see a lot of short hip hinge movements like the, the caber toss and
01:01:35 things like that.
01:01:36 Muay Thai wrestling, they’ve got a completely different hip joint.
01:01:40 And so strongman itself is going to be for very large frame individuals.
01:01:43 If you’re not well over six foot and a large person, you’re probably not going to perform
01:01:47 well.
01:01:48 It’s sub six foot have ever done well at strongman just because it’s, it’s leverage based, right?
01:01:54 Um, Olympic lifting, we see consistently in, in Europe, uh, the, the history tells us a
01:02:01 high level of hip, uh, and back issues because of the depth that that hip socket has to go
01:02:09 in to be able to complete that lift.
01:02:11 And so you’re going to see issues with populations that don’t have the ability to do that.
01:02:15 So, so we’ve talked a little bit about training as well as disposition.
01:02:20 Yeah.
01:02:21 So, and also cross head fits into that, that’s more like strongman, but for a wider variety
01:02:26 of bodies, I suppose.
01:02:27 Yep.
01:02:28 And definitely more metabolic conditioning focus than the, than the strength aspect of
01:02:32 it.
01:02:33 Um, and, and, and conditioning is an interesting thing too.
01:02:36 So that quality in my opinion can be developed a lot faster, but kind of peaks much faster
01:02:42 as well.
01:02:43 Um, where strength, we can continue to add and add and add over time.
01:02:48 Uh, so it’s for me, like for conditioning with any strength athlete, I don’t like to
01:02:54 spend as much time on that.
01:02:56 So I’ll cycle, uh, the conditioning work for our strength athletes and then taper that
01:03:01 off leading into meat.
01:03:02 So the more metabolic work, that means the more capacity in strength training that you
01:03:07 can accomplish, which is the goal, um, and recover from.
01:03:12 But then as we lead to a competition, we want to spend more time on recovering from that.
01:03:16 So we have to pull things out.
01:03:17 So we’d pull out less.
01:03:18 So like a typical approach would be like taking a six week cycle for conditioning and ramping,
01:03:25 ramping up over three weeks periods time, then dropping back down again and ramping
01:03:30 up and being slightly offset by like a week or two from your strength peaks so that you’ve
01:03:34 actually tapered the week prior in your conditioning work to your strength work.
01:03:38 Right.
01:03:39 So we’re not hitting conditioning hard all the time, which is a common, common, uh, misstep
01:03:43 that people make is going, well, I need conditioning.
01:03:46 So they just hammer that at a base level over the top instead of cycling that.
01:03:52 If we talk about powerlifting in terms of regimen, in terms of exercise, in terms of
01:04:01 the process, the wood consistent with what, is there something to be said about general
01:04:06 qualities of the consistency of the regimen required to get strong?
01:04:10 Yes.
01:04:11 So let’s talk about some training principles as a whole.
01:04:16 And this will, I think this will break down what you’re, what you’re one, the more work
01:04:22 that we can fit into a given time, the more progress we’re going to make.
01:04:28 But that doesn’t mean doing the max amount of work possible at any given time.
01:04:34 So we know that we’re always to, to, to accomplish more, we’re always going to have more.
01:04:39 And there’s a certain ceiling that you’re going to hit that you’re not going to be able
01:04:42 to add more.
01:04:43 So you want to start and get the most amount of results that you can with the least amount
01:04:47 of work, because you’re going to have to do it again, like this stair step over and over
01:04:54 year, decade, so on.
01:04:56 So when people is a big miss, people got, they look at a Chico program from Russia or
01:05:01 so on and they go, I’m going to follow this.
01:05:05 It’s like that was specifically written for somebody with 20 years of experience that’s
01:05:09 already built the capacities to be at that level.
01:05:12 So it’s all about building that work capacity.
01:05:14 So how much work can you give in a given time?
01:05:15 So now we want to look at some research is it relates to injuries because injuries are
01:05:21 going to be a big driver over time of what holds you back.
01:05:25 So when we talk consistency, training hard for three years, five years, it’s going to
01:05:32 be really good.
01:05:33 But what we find is a lot of people train really hard for nine months, have to slow
01:05:37 back for a month, get back into it and miss another week because, and so on.
01:05:41 They’re always like this little nagging, that little nagging.
01:05:44 And so it’s pretty clear in the research we want to, we’re looking at when we’re stair
01:05:49 stepping this stuff, we’re looking at acute and chronic loading.
01:05:54 So some fancy words for average and like what’s happening right now.
01:05:59 So this given week would be our acute, chronic would be what is our average loading let’s
01:06:04 say over the last six months.
01:06:07 So the more that we can move the chronic loading up, the more work we’re getting done on as
01:06:11 a whole over time, we’re going to get stronger.
01:06:14 The way that we build the capacity to do that is having spikes in acute loading.
01:06:20 Now as we do this, the, the acute loading, if it spikes more than 10, maybe 15% from
01:06:31 what the chronic loading has been, that accounts for 80% of injuries out there.
01:06:39 So it’s not actually the movement quality or this misstep or the other may usually happens
01:06:44 about four or five, six weeks later, it’s like, Oh, this nagging and then it gets worse.
01:06:48 And then now you got to, you got to do some rehab, your training sessions aren’t as good
01:06:52 and so on.
01:06:53 So now we’re starting to look at this.
01:06:54 Okay.
01:06:55 It’s like, I want to do the, I want to do the least amount of work where I can still
01:06:59 progress.
01:07:00 I want to be able to have spikes in my weekly demand that don’t go above 10 to 15% of what
01:07:09 I’ve been averaging for the last month.
01:07:11 But every time I do a spike, my, my average goes up, right?
01:07:14 Boom, boom, boom.
01:07:16 And then that becomes very particular also when you take, when you do take plantain time
01:07:20 off.
01:07:21 So a lot of people, uh, training session, maybe they’re doing a five week block with
01:07:25 a, uh, a deload week or you go on vacation for a week or any of those things that were
01:07:31 a downward.
01:07:32 What does that do to your average and chronic loading?
01:07:34 It brings it down.
01:07:35 And then what does the person want to do when they come back, make up for it.
01:07:39 Now they have a huge spike above five weeks later, we’re dealing with all this elbow,
01:07:43 this wrist, whatever’s kind of bothering me and now you’re not performing as much.
01:07:47 So these are some really fundamental pieces of, of, of, of training.
01:07:52 And then now we can start overlaying the qualities that we’re trying to develop that we were
01:07:56 talking about earlier.
01:07:57 So now it’s, let’s talk about my deadlift, my thousand pound deadlift.
01:08:01 We’ll talk about the training cycles for both the thousand deadlift and squat.
01:08:06 So backing up a year out from the deadlift, knowing I was training at the time, heavy
01:08:11 deadlifts once a week and usually it was two of those sessions a month were really heavy
01:08:16 and the others weren’t.
01:08:17 And it’s like, okay, how can we get this up to where I’m deadlifting twice a week?
01:08:23 Because that’s where I want to be, uh, to be able to accomplish this.
01:08:26 I need to be loading about that much with frequency, with a certain volume to be able
01:08:30 to accomplish this goal.
01:08:31 We’re not going to go through all the math and stuff like that and how that’s arrived,
01:08:34 but there is math behind this.
01:08:37 And so instead of just like, oh, well, let’s start deadlifting twice a week.
01:08:41 No.
01:08:42 So we start and we take the one session that we’ve got and we split it, part of it, take
01:08:48 part of it away and put it in the second half of the week.
01:08:50 So the total volume is still the same.
01:08:53 And then, um, we start adding some volume, but I’m doing it at a off a block so that
01:08:59 the actual load is accumulative load is less cause I have less range of motion.
01:09:03 Okay.
01:09:04 And then we start building that closer to the ground, closer to the ground and so on.
01:09:08 And now we start getting to where I’m almost doing two sessions, full sessions a week.
01:09:12 And then we start adding a little bit of load.
01:09:16 And so at my level, this isn’t talking about adding another set or another day a week.
01:09:22 We’re talking like in my squat, it might be one rep instead of doing three sets of three
01:09:29 at one week, I do two doubles or two triples, then two doubles to give me one more rep.
01:09:37 That’s it.
01:09:38 And so we’re doing that from one week to the next.
01:09:40 And that’s a cycle training cycle.
01:09:41 It might be five, six weeks and then so on and the next one and slowly bringing that
01:09:45 average load up.
01:09:47 So the last phases of the squat, for example, we took the average loading every week.
01:09:52 So my, of my heavy sets.
01:09:54 Once we developed all this stuff over the last year to get to this point, now it is
01:10:01 taking and going, okay, my average load this week is eight reps at nine hundred and fifty
01:10:05 five pounds.
01:10:07 And then the next week, let’s get it to nine, nine fifty seven, nine sixty three.
01:10:13 And this was pretty aggressive working up to where my average loading the final that
01:10:17 the final was nine hundred and eighty five pounds average load for eight to nine reps.
01:10:22 And that’s what I said.
01:10:23 This is the intense part.
01:10:24 This is the day of was much easier that week over week is pretty brutal.
01:10:30 May not sound well, you’re just squatting.
01:10:32 And now let’s back up.
01:10:33 Let’s look at the quality development.
01:10:34 So a year out from the squat, obviously, I’ve been working on developing axial load capacity,
01:10:40 my capacity to withstand load from top to bottom.
01:10:44 So I like thinking about things and movement vectors.
01:10:46 So this vector is an axial loaded vector is the hardest to recover from that was axial.
01:10:52 Like is deadlift, are they both or both?
01:10:55 Yep.
01:10:56 So a horizontal front to back would be like a row or a press.
01:11:01 Why is the axial hardest to recover because it’s entire body, the entire entire body,
01:11:06 just anything that is that taxes the the spinal mechanics?
01:11:11 I don’t I could tell you my beliefs.
01:11:14 It’s studied.
01:11:15 It is.
01:11:16 OK, we can just keep the discussion on that short like that.
01:11:20 Well, so we start looking at those different vectors that we’re training in.
01:11:24 And so this is why this is important to understand.
01:11:27 So I’m not just getting into nuance here.
01:11:29 So, hey, squatting is going to make me make me jump further because it’s legs.
01:11:34 Well, squatting is an axial load vector and jumping is a vector this way.
01:11:40 So actually, hip thrust would help with your and this is proven in science with your forward
01:11:46 jumping ability.
01:11:48 They’re both working similar muscles.
01:11:49 The glute extension, but they’re working it in those different platforms.
01:11:54 So it’s really important to understand because people don’t understand.
01:11:57 I’m building my work capacity by doing sled process.
01:12:01 You’re not developing your work capacity for squatting.
01:12:04 Most movements, even ones as holistic as a as a squat, require specialization.
01:12:11 Yeah.
01:12:12 You can’t get strong at the squat by doing it.
01:12:15 You’re going to have some carry over, right, obviously.
01:12:18 But because taking an untrained person that hasn’t done it is still not going to do as
01:12:22 good as somebody that’s done nonspecific work, but done work.
01:12:26 So but yes, for the most part, to get truly strong, you need to specialize.
01:12:30 So but not all the time.
01:12:33 So now we talk about quality.
01:12:34 So and if we specialize in the same thing too long, we stagnate because the body adapts
01:12:39 to a certain point and just can’t make progress.
01:12:41 So we wanted to save the actual squatting in the pattern with the bar that I was doing
01:12:46 for the very end.
01:12:48 So starting a year out, I started doing work front squatting like a squat axial loaded
01:12:55 pattern and worked on maximizing that up.
01:12:58 Then I started shifting to doing transformer bar squat.
01:13:03 It’s this bar I developed that actually change manipulates spinal mechanics.
01:13:06 So I started loading in these more forward positions and being able again.
01:13:10 So now I’m getting closer than a front squat, but not quite squatting.
01:13:13 And then I would start adjusting that bar every training cycle to closer to a squat
01:13:18 toaster to a squat till it finally was right.
01:13:21 What’s the difference between a front squat and a regular like a back squat?
01:13:25 Like in terms of the stress on the body, the mechanics, was there something interesting
01:13:30 to be said about like how fundamentally different are they?
01:13:34 So it’s interesting.
01:13:35 People think about the weight and imposition to them like, oh, the bars in front of me,
01:13:38 the bars behind me, which is not the case.
01:13:42 The bar is above your midfoot.
01:13:45 The load is above your midfoot.
01:13:48 So we’re actually manipulating the spine behind the bar.
01:13:52 So we’re causing spinal uprighting behind the bar, getting in a more erect position,
01:13:56 which is going to change the relationship of the hip angle.
01:13:59 It’s going to change our ability to maintain the spine.
01:14:02 It’s going to change how much the core comes in, how hard it is to maintain that sternum
01:14:08 to diaphragm relationship that we talked about.
01:14:11 All this stuff starts changing.
01:14:12 So the bar stays in the same place.
01:14:14 Bar is still behind you, but the load moves around.
01:14:17 But we’re actually manipulating the spine around the load.
01:14:21 Yeah.
01:14:22 It’s incredible.
01:14:23 We can tailor it to an athlete, which is great when you got a seven foot plus tall baseball
01:14:27 player or basketball player.
01:14:28 That’s why we work with all these teams.
01:14:30 Anyway, so it’s like you’re taking something and getting closer and closer to it.
01:14:33 At the same time, we’re looking at the quality.
01:14:35 So like I needed to be able to really hold this torso position with the weight moving
01:14:39 up here.
01:14:40 Unlike the deadlift, the ability to manage this TL position becomes much more challenging.
01:14:45 So that was also why I was choosing the transformer bar, because it actually challenges that more
01:14:50 in those big forward positions.
01:14:51 I was also working on my back strength tremendously to be able to hold the maintain position.
01:14:56 So there was a lot of like I chose a bent over rows.
01:15:00 So bent over row is a mixed vector.
01:15:02 So it’s a forward to back.
01:15:03 So it wouldn’t have as much carrier, but it’s also got some axial loading component in it
01:15:09 as well.
01:15:10 So we’re working on that.
01:15:12 And then as we get closer and closer to competition, I’m developing those strengths.
01:15:15 But now I need to start tapering those out.
01:15:18 So all of my recovery needs can now go into the more specific that I’m actually ramping
01:15:22 the load up.
01:15:24 So as I’m ramping the load on the weight, I’m able to ramp it a lot faster because I’m
01:15:29 tapering out the other stuff.
01:15:30 So I can still keep my total load high, but now get it very, very specific.
01:15:37 So everything that I’ve done has always been kind of an annual training cycle.
01:15:41 And then again, this was like this was a five year training cycle, but we just kind of walked
01:15:44 through the last year of each and you can see how these concepts play out in reality.
01:15:50 So in the cycling.
01:15:51 So this is both for you, but also for more recreational strength athletes.
01:15:58 Let’s say there’s variety injected into this.
01:16:01 You need variety.
01:16:02 Yeah.
01:16:03 Yeah.
01:16:04 So you will basically stagnate at some level, right?
01:16:07 So you should always be kind of shifting a little bit.
01:16:10 So three to four month blocks in general for an average, you know, just a gen pop fitness
01:16:16 is pretty good where you’re going to spend more time maybe in a higher rep range or lower
01:16:22 rep range, a little bit more work on endurance capacity or maybe some more time.
01:16:27 Hey, I’m playing around with boxing or jujitsu or something like that.
01:16:30 Bring that a little bit more to the front for a while and bring the other out.
01:16:33 But like mixing mixing those variables up, but trying to keep the total load the same
01:16:38 and always kind of like, you know, do we add a little more?
01:16:41 Again, it doesn’t have to be major and it shouldn’t be major.
01:16:43 You don’t want these big jumps.
01:16:44 You don’t go, oh, my God, let’s move.
01:16:48 Let’s jump into squatting every day.
01:16:51 You’ve got to build the capacity to do that.
01:16:54 It’s simple.
01:16:55 What role would you say strength has in sports that combine skill and strength?
01:17:01 So for me personally, maybe I’ll just ask it selfishly, which is grappling, wrestling,
01:17:07 MMA.
01:17:08 Yeah.
01:17:09 How about I start with baseball?
01:17:12 Please.
01:17:13 No.
01:17:14 I will.
01:17:15 OK.
01:17:16 I know.
01:17:17 The sport.
01:17:18 OK.
01:17:19 No.
01:17:20 Baseball and golf are two of my favorite sports.
01:17:21 Oh, no.
01:17:22 I don’t.
01:17:23 You don’t have to be in shape at all to excel at those sports.
01:17:25 Well, here’s the thing.
01:17:26 There we go.
01:17:27 It doesn’t help.
01:17:28 I’m going to get this argument.
01:17:29 Well, I’ve got a perfect example, because this is why I sell so many Transformer bars
01:17:34 into the Major League Baseball.
01:17:36 So they get these people that come in, these athletes, that have been baseball their whole
01:17:42 life.
01:17:43 It is part of the culture.
01:17:44 And so they’re great athletes.
01:17:46 They’ve got all this skill.
01:17:47 The only thing they have to do is develop a little bit more resilience so that they
01:17:53 don’t have the injury.
01:17:54 They can push their training a little bit more, that they can add a little bit more
01:17:58 force output and be able to recover from it.
01:18:01 So the only thing they’ve got to do is add some training.
01:18:04 But there’s no training culture there, so they don’t have any experience, which is why
01:18:08 they love the Transformer bar, because they don’t have to worry about teaching the technique.
01:18:11 We can actually set the bar on a setting that makes their squats perfect by cueing all the
01:18:15 stuff with actually not having to coach it.
01:18:17 Because when you’re coaching a roomful of athletes, it’s really hard to teach the nuance
01:18:21 of all this and not sure that all that.
01:18:23 But that’s all that they have to do with these players with a huge level of skill.
01:18:27 So once you reach a certain level of skill, adding strength is the only real forward path.
01:18:35 So that’s the basic, simple answer to that.
01:18:39 So one of the benefits there being injury prevention, actually.
01:18:42 Injury prevention.
01:18:43 Resilience.
01:18:44 Because especially fighting sports, you’re going to be challenged and thrown and other
01:18:49 things happen to you.
01:18:50 And the more resilient you can make your structures, the better you’re going to be.
01:18:54 Even a cyclist, mountain biking.
01:18:57 Why would they need it?
01:18:58 Why would they need to do upper body training?
01:18:59 Take a crash, your shoulder’s gone.
01:19:02 You’re done.
01:19:03 Your career’s over.
01:19:04 Unless you’ve done a little training.
01:19:07 So there’s value in all this stuff.
01:19:09 But the resilience, that’s huge.
01:19:12 And then we can overlay strength.
01:19:15 Where we miss is this focus on strength when we haven’t developed quality motor patterns
01:19:19 first.
01:19:20 So this is a huge thing with children.
01:19:23 Because people want to know what’s the appropriate training age.
01:19:26 I’d have had my daughter training before my son.
01:19:29 Because she developed movement patterns that have better quality earlier.
01:19:33 There’s no age.
01:19:34 Because it’s going to be very dependent on the individual.
01:19:37 There’s no point in having adaptation if we don’t have the right thing to adapt to yet.
01:19:41 And that applies to general movement, but also to sport.
01:19:44 You’re saying the skills should be developed first and then the strength applied on top
01:19:47 of that.
01:19:48 Yep.
01:19:49 Maybe you can educate me, but I actually quit lifting and powerlifting for a long time
01:19:56 after I started Judo, Jiu Jitsu, grappling, all this sort of combat sports.
01:20:05 Because I found that it was preventing me from relaxing my body enough to load in the
01:20:15 skill.
01:20:17 So this isn’t a problem with the training.
01:20:20 This is a problem with you.
01:20:22 So this is actually really, really important.
01:20:25 The first product I ever released was a loadable mace, a swinging mace.
01:20:33 And because every power lifter and body, well, not every, but most serious power lifters
01:20:38 and bodybuilders, like shoulders, mobility is pretty limited.
01:20:44 And most of them really, really struggle with this.
01:20:47 The problem is they’ve been taught to have tension all the time.
01:20:52 And that’s not good.
01:20:53 So when we talk about the joint positions that we were talking about earlier and having
01:20:57 those and the muscles in the right length and tension relationship, athleticism is the
01:21:03 speed to relaxation because the counter is speed to contraction.
01:21:11 Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.
01:21:14 And so what a mace can do is use that because this ties back into a developmental kinesiology
01:21:20 because a lot of like reset patterns are getting back into these basic movements, but it’s
01:21:24 as much about relaxation as it is contraction.
01:21:28 So a mace, we have this weight on a big long lever.
01:21:32 So if I grab a kettlebell and this would be like the same movement as a kettlebell halo,
01:21:36 it is the same movement as a, but here in the halo, I’m on the whole time with the mace
01:21:42 at the proper length, with the right distribution, you cannot do the movement.
01:21:47 You could not move force your way through it.
01:21:50 The only way that you can accomplish that is by relaxing.
01:21:55 And then now we, now we can contract all the muscles related around that shoulder girdle
01:22:00 all at once.
01:22:01 We’re working on, off, on, off, on, off with moving and contracting.
01:22:06 And now, so what happens a lot of times as we, you know, this stiffness and tightness
01:22:11 happens.
01:22:12 So in four positions, we start using stabilizer muscles to do the movement.
01:22:17 And then that’s where this stiffness come from.
01:22:19 So it means that in some of whatever training that you’re doing, there’s a deficit in the
01:22:24 movement quality, okay.
01:22:27 Or there’s a deficit in the training program and you’re not recovering from an 80% of the
01:22:31 time.
01:22:32 That’s the right answer.
01:22:33 Right.
01:22:34 But yeah, that’s where the, where the gap is and learning how to relax and the way a
01:22:39 lot of the exercises are taught and have been taught for a long time, which is why there’s
01:22:43 a big gap.
01:22:44 And this is why both clinical rehab and all these other components are mixed in my philosophy
01:22:49 and what I’m trying to do with Kabuki strength, because I’m looking at holistic movement.
01:22:53 I’m not looking at powerlifting based movements are what I want to load and be able to assess
01:22:58 on.
01:23:00 But this affects all sports, all activities and strength doesn’t have to be that.
01:23:07 I mean, I’m freaking a thousand pound squatter and deadlifter.
01:23:10 If you watch any of my videos where I do like complete quad fallbacks, I don’t stretch at
01:23:15 all.
01:23:16 I can usually get close to a full split.
01:23:17 Like if I want to.
01:23:18 What?
01:23:19 No, I did not see those videos.
01:23:21 Okay.
01:23:22 That’s, that’s hard to believe.
01:23:23 Wow.
01:23:24 Okay.
01:23:25 Well actually I do.
01:23:26 I just did one recently, a quad fallback with my, with my mace loaded way out to the end
01:23:29 torsioning on both ends of the other.
01:23:31 And like I do a lot of, I do a lot of weird stuff.
01:23:35 That’s awesome.
01:23:36 But squatting doesn’t make your hips tight.
01:23:39 Squatting like shit makes your hips tight.
01:23:42 And so, but there is no perfect world where always our training program isn’t quite perfect.
01:23:48 Our movement isn’t necessarily perfect.
01:23:50 Like so you’re going to have the needs for this stuff.
01:23:52 But if you’re always have to do some soft tissue work to loosen up the same one for
01:23:58 that exercise, to be able to get a joint in position, there is a problem.
01:24:01 And I’m not saying don’t do it, do it because I don’t want you to have a joint.
01:24:05 Like if I can’t get my shoulders in a position, I can’t do overhead presses because I’m going
01:24:09 to compromise my spine position.
01:24:11 Then I’m going to end up with some other problems.
01:24:12 Right?
01:24:13 So go ahead and clean that up so you can get in position, but go figure out why it is and
01:24:18 fix it.
01:24:20 And then maybe next, you know, three, four months from now, they’re going to get a little
01:24:23 something else going on, fix it, but go understand the deeper root reason of why.
01:24:29 So I’m, I believe I am the only company manufacturing and selling, you know, fascial soft tissue
01:24:35 tools.
01:24:36 And I’ll tell you, I don’t want you to use them.
01:24:39 Cause it’s not helping you get to the why, why it was caused in the first place.
01:24:43 Yeah.
01:24:44 The goal, the goal, the perfect state is not having to use them.
01:24:49 Reality is you’re going to have to use them from time to time because the world’s not
01:24:52 perfect.
01:24:53 Yeah.
01:24:54 So your discovery is a hundred percent on point.
01:24:56 Well there’s another side to combat sports when you’re beginning a particular combat
01:25:02 sport, strength can be a negative because human psychology, because you can get away
01:25:10 with a lot when you’re strong.
01:25:11 Uh huh.
01:25:12 Yes, you can.
01:25:13 So if your mind is strong enough to where you can just turn off that advantage and be
01:25:19 a beginner, truly in a particular art, that’s probably the best way to do it.
01:25:23 But you can get away and then you don’t learn.
01:25:26 Yeah.
01:25:27 Yeah.
01:25:28 It’s hard.
01:25:29 Uh, it’s hard not to use the little advantages you have because like jujitsu is a big hit
01:25:35 on an, on the ego for, you know, especially guys, you know, when like a smaller person
01:25:42 just destroys you, dominates you when you can, uh, I don’t know, deadlift whatever number
01:25:48 of pounds.
01:25:50 And uh, it’s hard not to use that strength to then resist the slow, the ultimate destruction
01:25:56 by like 120 pound, but that, and that’s why I recommend developing the skill quality first,
01:26:02 but it doesn’t, it doesn’t mean that you can’t, I can’t, you can still do it so that don’t
01:26:06 take it as a like, oh, I can’t go that direction.
01:26:09 That’s fine.
01:26:10 But understand those things and then also understand the jujitsu is additional load
01:26:14 on the body.
01:26:15 So you have to, you can’t just add it on top.
01:26:18 You’ve got to taper back the other, you’re going to have to make a, I’m sorry, you may
01:26:22 not want to hear it, but you’re not going to be able to do as much and add that here.
01:26:28 It’s a compromise because your total volume still has to be there and there’s not, unfortunately,
01:26:35 not really a way to measure what the jujitsu volume is with this.
01:26:39 So you’ve got to take a look at that and that’s where like measuring like heart rate variability
01:26:44 or other stuff can be useful so you can see what is happening from me from a sympathetic
01:26:50 versus parasympathetic nervous system standpoint.
01:26:52 Yeah.
01:26:53 Making sure your body recovers sufficiently and trying to put numbers to it.
01:26:56 You mentioned Kabuki strength.
01:26:58 You run the Kabuki strength lab previously called the elite performance center in Oregon.
01:27:04 You called it the perfect gym.
01:27:07 What makes for the perfect strength training gym?
01:27:11 Where I called it the perfect gym?
01:27:12 In a video somewhere I watched.
01:27:14 Oh man.
01:27:15 I mean, that’s where my testing grounds for developing all this stuff was through the
01:27:19 years.
01:27:20 And, and so this is, like I said, I started developing relationships with the best developmental
01:27:26 kinesiologist in the, in the U S the best, arguably the best or most well known physical
01:27:30 therapist in the world, the best spine biomechanist in the world.
01:27:35 I started doing continuing education with these clinical courses and learning this stuff
01:27:38 and going, but how does it work in my world?
01:27:41 Right.
01:27:42 And then I started lecturing with them and all this other stuff.
01:27:44 But the lab was like, where do we test this stuff?
01:27:47 Right.
01:27:48 And so let me get to a point.
01:27:49 There’s three things.
01:27:50 There’s always three things.
01:27:52 So to be a success, to achieve success, I believe there’s three things that really,
01:27:59 really come into place and it’s the right methodology, the right tools and the right
01:28:08 environment.
01:28:10 And so it was all about building that.
01:28:13 And so the methodologies came from a lot of that different, that gray area interaction
01:28:19 of clinical with sports science, right?
01:28:22 And then the tools I had to start creating and designing, and then the environment is
01:28:27 having this, you know, focused environment of people that want to do better and push
01:28:32 each other and having community and culture, right?
01:28:35 I ended up building these connections, this network, everything that I’m doing with my
01:28:39 businesses is trying to create that into a scalable fashion.
01:28:44 And so I’m building the groundwork because to have a system that like, yeah, I had clinicals
01:28:49 on site that knew exactly what we were doing.
01:28:51 And when it’s me and a few people in a small team and all this stuff, we’re all just like
01:28:55 easy to manage.
01:28:57 And you can see these, there’s other models around this.
01:28:59 So I’ve been other areas since maybe whenever it was I filmed that video that said that,
01:29:04 that they have that same model and it’s taken probably about a decade usually to develop
01:29:09 that.
01:29:10 You know, and having the right people in this community, they can create this, this network
01:29:14 and the tool and all this stuff, right?
01:29:15 Except they still don’t have the best tools because Kibuki strength didn’t exist.
01:29:21 But but and so out of that was, is essentially I started building this business and people
01:29:27 like, when did you know how all this stuff was connected?
01:29:30 And I’m like, I don’t know.
01:29:32 I didn’t, I just started creating on the outset the things that worked until finally I’m like,
01:29:37 I’m recreating a scalable version of this stuff.
01:29:41 Here’s the methodologies and a coaching platform that we can manage clients around the globe
01:29:46 and see what’s working and not based on the scientific principles of training, right?
01:29:50 How do we create that into a database that now we can train new coaches and they can
01:29:54 use those same metrics and tools to create programs that are tailored to fit person’s
01:29:58 individual needs, right?
01:30:00 Now how do we integrate that with assessment and clinical care assessment and all these
01:30:06 other pieces?
01:30:07 So there’s a lot of work in that.
01:30:09 And so that’s where Kibuki strength is the genesis.
01:30:11 But we have, we call our gym the Kibuki strength lab.
01:30:16 Literally people find about our gym in the neighborhood and they’re like, how long have
01:30:20 you been here?
01:30:21 Why, why do I not know about this?
01:30:22 We don’t advertise our gym at all.
01:30:24 So like that makes no sense.
01:30:27 Well that’s because the only reason is to have a testing environment for the tools and
01:30:32 methodology and having enough people to have the culture and fit and to be able to be part
01:30:38 of the experiment.
01:30:39 What about the environment of the, the feel of it, the actual gym?
01:30:44 There’s a, I don’t know, a grunginess to it.
01:30:47 I recently became a member of planet fitness for, for reasons that have to do more with
01:30:54 the heat in Austin that sometimes I need to put in time in the treadmill.
01:30:59 I don’t like that.
01:31:00 I don’t have any judgment, honestly.
01:31:01 I don’t, the best gyms I’ve been in are kind of dirty.
01:31:06 You walk in and you know that work is to be done.
01:31:08 There’s not another reason to do there.
01:31:10 It is the, the environment is tight.
01:31:13 There’s a big piece of that.
01:31:16 I know it’s studied sociologically, I believe.
01:31:19 I just, I just pictured that word too, but the intensity, when you start growing a space,
01:31:26 the intensity drops.
01:31:28 And so I, I had that experience when we grew, we went from a 4,000 foot to a 9,000 square
01:31:33 foot gym at one time.
01:31:35 And everybody’s like, it doesn’t feel the same.
01:31:38 Like people are complaining for years.
01:31:39 We’ve shrunk it back down whenever down to 3,500 square feet.
01:31:42 And it creates that intensity.
01:31:44 It creates the closest, the connection with the people around you.
01:31:47 And then like I said, the grunginess, like you go in, you know, the intention when you
01:31:52 walk in that environment creates that tension.
01:31:54 But when I speak environment, it’s not just the, it’s not the physical, it’s the people.
01:31:58 But you know, when the gym is a little bit beat up, it also tells a story.
01:32:03 Like there’s a history to it.
01:32:06 You could tell that not only is there work to be done, that work has been done here.
01:32:11 Yes.
01:32:12 Like battles have been fought.
01:32:13 There’s something to that where you’re just in a long line of people, you know, that fought
01:32:20 and won.
01:32:21 And we could get into a whole nother space, there’d be a whole nother topic, but that
01:32:26 existing energy of a space.
01:32:28 I mean, we mentioned offline, Joe Rogan, he talks about the same with comedy clubs.
01:32:32 There’s certain, there’s certain clubs that just have a history.
01:32:36 There’s an energy there.
01:32:38 You can get all woo woo, but you know, it’s there.
01:32:40 It’s a real thing.
01:32:41 I think you walk in and you can feel it.
01:32:43 You feel it.
01:32:44 You feel it.
01:32:45 Yeah.
01:32:46 That makes me feel that somehow all of us humans are connected in a ways that’s hard
01:32:52 to describe, even the ones who are no longer here.
01:32:57 Just the greatness that once was is still in the walls, in the space, present there.
01:33:05 And we somehow can plug into that energy.
01:33:07 Yeah.
01:33:08 It’s, we can go down a, go down a path there.
01:33:11 There’s something really powerful there.
01:33:13 You’ve also mentioned a bunch of cool equipment that you’ve developed as part of Kabuki Strength.
01:33:20 Probably a little bit of that has to do with your engineering education, but also just
01:33:24 generally with the spirit of the innovator that you are.
01:33:29 What are some cool, maybe revolutionary pieces of equipment that you’re particularly proud
01:33:35 of or just you’ve been obsessed with recently that you’re developing?
01:33:39 Yeah.
01:33:40 Love to talk about that.
01:33:41 So we’ve got some wild crazy stuff that just came out and is coming out too.
01:33:46 So everything that we create and release at Kabuki Strength, the industry hasn’t seen
01:33:52 before.
01:33:54 There’s stuff that’s basic foundational.
01:33:56 It’s been around forever because it works, but there’s always more.
01:34:02 It could be better.
01:34:04 And why are we not looking at these things, these foundational things?
01:34:07 So when people are coming up with novel things, they ended up being way different outside
01:34:10 the perspective.
01:34:11 And I’m coming up with things that are way different that are plays on what we already
01:34:17 know works.
01:34:18 So we talked about the transform bar, the only bar in the world.
01:34:20 We can manipulate spinal mechanics.
01:34:22 We can, so everything, everything for me from a design concept that we develop is all about
01:34:27 creating products that can rapidly accommodate to the variability of an individual’s leverages,
01:34:37 mobility and training needs.
01:34:40 Okay.
01:34:41 And that’s going to also create and distill down the size and scope of space that we need,
01:34:45 which is going to be, continue to be an ongoing thing.
01:34:48 Check out my Instagram after this and you’ll see, I put an entire gym on the bed of my
01:34:51 truck and went on vacation last week, drove to the desert and by entire gym, I mean a
01:34:58 squat rack, full compliment of our specialty bars, a horizontal and vertical pulley system,
01:35:03 handheld weights, shoulder rock, like a complete, an entire gym in product that took up the
01:35:09 space the size of this bed right here.
01:35:13 That’s incredible.
01:35:14 Because of the design scope of what we have.
01:35:16 So the cool thing is that there’s two other bars that fit our biomechanically sound barbell
01:35:21 designs.
01:35:22 We talked about the transformer bar.
01:35:23 The other two are built on this thing I called playground physics.
01:35:27 So we have these bars with handles that are off parallel with the axis.
01:35:35 So they’ve been around the market for a long time.
01:35:37 One is a hex bar or a trap bar.
01:35:40 Another one is a, it’s a pressing bar with the handles turned as well.
01:35:46 And both of them suck.
01:35:48 They’re horrible.
01:35:49 Any lifter knows if you pick it up, it’s going to break your wrist and crush into your face.
01:35:54 And it just, it just doesn’t feel good pressing, but it alleviates the strain on the wrist.
01:36:00 So people use it for that reason.
01:36:02 And the, the, the trap bar, same thing.
01:36:04 It’s always diving forward in your hand.
01:36:06 So it’s kind of limited.
01:36:07 It’s also limited in use because you can’t, you could do a lot more with it.
01:36:12 So these bars are really cool playground physics.
01:36:15 So as soon as the center of rotation is on the same axis as the center of mass and the
01:36:25 handle is off center, you have, you have a teeter totter.
01:36:30 So a teeter totter has a balance point, but it’s infinitely perfect.
01:36:34 So technically you can never find it.
01:36:36 So always going to be sitting on one side or the other in a playground.
01:36:38 And that’s what these bars are designed.
01:36:40 So you’ve got instability right here.
01:36:42 You can’t find the center of the bars.
01:36:43 It’s always trying to tip in your hands on the trap bar.
01:36:45 So you can’t do carries with it cause you’re doing for momentum and it wants to, it wants
01:36:48 to dip on you.
01:36:49 Right.
01:36:50 Um, the Swiss bar wants to crush your face.
01:36:52 Well, what do we do?
01:36:53 We just make a swing, but center of mass below center of rotation.
01:36:58 And what does it do?
01:36:59 Oh, it always finds center.
01:37:02 So, so the handles on the, our pressing bar it’s art.
01:37:06 So the handles are above center of rotation and then, and then every angle, instead of
01:37:11 just being a certain fixed angles, each angle is based on the width, the average width of
01:37:17 an individual.
01:37:18 So the internal and external rotational bias is based of the shoulder is based on the width,
01:37:23 leaving just a little bit left because we talked about the lap being a stabilizer.
01:37:26 You still need to have a little bit of cue of external rotation to engage that as a stabilizer.
01:37:30 Boom.
01:37:31 Now all of a sudden you have a bar and I kid you not, this is a great story.
01:37:35 Major league baseball.
01:37:36 When I presented it, every head strength coach for a major league baseball team, maybe not
01:37:39 every, but damn near most of them have bad shoulders.
01:37:42 They can’t press.
01:37:43 They’ve gotten shoulder surgeries, so on.
01:37:45 And so we’re showing them, they love all our stuff and I’m like, Hey, I’ve got this cool
01:37:48 prototype I want to show you.
01:37:49 It’s a pressing bar.
01:37:50 And they’re like, Oh, you know, major league baseball is a little hesitant on pressing
01:37:54 because the dangers for the shoulder and I can’t, I haven’t been able to take a bar to
01:37:59 my chest.
01:38:00 I mean, I’d really love to.
01:38:01 It’s been five years since I’ve, I’ve been able to to XX train and I’m like, just try
01:38:07 it.
01:38:08 Put a bar on my chest without pain.
01:38:09 I’m like, just try it.
01:38:10 Put it in there.
01:38:11 Ooh, that feels good.
01:38:12 Now the arc makes it actually three inches deeper.
01:38:15 So people are automatically scared.
01:38:16 I can’t do that.
01:38:17 Cause that’s an extra range of motion.
01:38:18 Right?
01:38:19 Like, Ooh, put a plate on there.
01:38:20 They’re doing it.
01:38:21 By the time the staff’s like, they’re all standing around, you see like, what’s going
01:38:24 on?
01:38:25 Put two plates on.
01:38:26 You see the, just like he gets up.
01:38:29 How do you feel like, I feel fine.
01:38:33 No pain at all.
01:38:34 I did this with five teams with five of the, it happening repeatedly five times that they
01:38:42 and every one of them worked up to two plates and did reps varied with zero pain to a three
01:38:47 inch range or greater range of major.
01:38:49 Cause what did we do?
01:38:50 We stacked all the joints and we provided stability at the end that we balanced internal
01:38:53 and external rotation.
01:38:54 I mean just basic playground physics and it changed the game.
01:38:58 Now we get a greater range of motion with a greater training effect with the negative
01:39:02 stresses removed.
01:39:03 Our trap bar opened up one side, which there was already some like that out there created.
01:39:09 It pops up so you can pick up, take the weights on and off.
01:39:12 It’s got a built in Jack and then created the high handle position, which already did.
01:39:16 Everybody uses the high handle on a trap bar.
01:39:18 They just don’t know why they like it.
01:39:20 The handle that’s on center, we offset just a little bit, not enough to make a difference
01:39:23 on the range of motion lift or even notice visibly, but it still has the same effect.
01:39:27 So both handles now have that.
01:39:30 We added the option of different handle sizes based on whatever your needs are.
01:39:33 One that rolls to develop a grip and then different widths that you could choose from
01:39:38 based on whether you’re training a teen athlete or a seven foot six NBA player or a NFL lineman
01:39:44 so that we can accommodate for all these differences.
01:39:48 Now it becomes the most functional all around bar around because now you can do carries
01:39:53 with it.
01:39:54 You can do split squats with it.
01:39:55 You could do curls with it because it goes around the body.
01:39:57 You can do overhead presses because you don’t have a thing that gets in your way and you
01:40:00 can flip it up into position.
01:40:01 You can do bent over rows and not run into your shins.
01:40:04 You can do seal rows off of a bench.
01:40:06 You can do ab rollouts.
01:40:07 You could, should I go on?
01:40:08 Yeah.
01:40:09 So you can use it as like the main bar.
01:40:10 The best multi purpose bar around.
01:40:12 You got a home gym, one bar.
01:40:13 Like how do you develop totally new equipment like this?
01:40:16 I scratch it on paper.
01:40:19 Maybe weld some cut up and weld up a prototype, but usually I just hand the scratched up paper
01:40:24 to my engineering manager and that’s what he says his job is to distill my chicken scratch
01:40:30 into something real and then that team picks it up.
01:40:33 But in the old days, starting out, I just walk out, I just walk out and do it.
01:40:39 You talk about engineering.
01:40:40 I’m actually more, I work more of an artist fashion.
01:40:41 It’s in my head and I just go create with no plans.
01:40:46 And so they have to pick that up and actually do the engineering and testing and all that.
01:40:50 And then we got two other products came out this year.
01:40:52 Freaking wild.
01:40:53 Are you familiar with training with a flywheel?
01:40:55 No, no, it’s a flywheel.
01:40:57 A flywheel is a spinning object that creates an inertial mass and then it reverses direction.
01:41:04 So whatever you put into it and there’s ones out there.
01:41:08 But ours is the first patent pending.
01:41:10 That’s all everything all in one unit.
01:41:12 So it’s a floor based as well as a horizontal.
01:41:15 So you can basically do any pulley movement in the world.
01:41:17 And now everything that you put into it on a concentric force, it whips right back as
01:41:21 a peak centric load.
01:41:24 So there’s an accelerating whipping motion.
01:41:26 It just yeah, basically, yeah, I mean, okay, I have to have trouble imagining exactly many
01:41:32 of the things you’re describing, I suppose, have to be experienced, right?
01:41:37 Yes.
01:41:38 Because there’s a magic and there’s a lot of research.
01:41:40 They’ve been around.
01:41:41 They’re adopted more heavily in Europe, quite heavily in Europe, but not as much in the
01:41:44 US because they sell them as a be all end all tool, which they’re not.
01:41:48 They’re crazy for what they do, but it’s not the it’s another tool.
01:41:52 And so we have a very high quality unit now that is half the cost of everybody else’s
01:41:57 because the innovation of a movable mount point that you for them, you have to have
01:42:02 two pieces of equipment.
01:42:03 We have one.
01:42:04 So and then a few other things, better platform to be able to do things and that we can do
01:42:10 what we call off platform work, which allows us to do movements like punches and standups,
01:42:16 things like that.
01:42:17 And then I’ve got a handheld weight coming out next month that we can actually play with.
01:42:21 So varying the load with it, never leaving your hand by changing the leverage point.
01:42:27 And so what do we think?
01:42:29 What exercise are we talking about here?
01:42:31 Anything that would be a dumbbell or a kettlebell movement.
01:42:35 So it functions, it does the function of a kettlebell, a dumbbell and what we call a
01:42:38 center mass bell, as well as provides variable loading within a range.
01:42:42 So how can you change like how can you change the load?
01:42:47 Because load.
01:42:48 Well, we don’t actually change the load.
01:42:49 We change the torque on the on the joint that we’re working, which is the same.
01:42:53 That’s actually what is creating the force.
01:42:55 Right.
01:42:56 So if I’m doing a front raise, it’s where this this downward force is times the distance
01:43:01 away.
01:43:02 Right.
01:43:03 Which also then makes it no force when I’ve got at the bottom of the front raise, which
01:43:06 is why it’s so easy with this.
01:43:09 It’s like a kettlebell.
01:43:10 It’s offset, except it has three different handles.
01:43:12 But it’s offset just that a kettlebell, you can’t do it because the offset so far it becomes
01:43:16 a wrist movement.
01:43:17 So ours has three different sizes and the offset just enough so that you can pick.
01:43:22 If I put it in a front raise position or curl position, I could put it in outward position
01:43:26 and the force is almost what it is at the at the top.
01:43:29 Then I get the top and it’s the same exact or the curl.
01:43:32 So I can actually change the force curve in the movement and then I can just release the
01:43:36 pressure a little bit and let it swing into position and keep doing a drop set with never
01:43:39 letting it down.
01:43:40 Yeah.
01:43:41 Yeah.
01:43:42 So it’s got a really nice texture grip that allows you to hold it in different positions.
01:43:45 And then the load offset is just enough that it doesn’t overpower the wrist.
01:43:48 And then you’ve got different hand sizes so that you can maximize this relationship and
01:43:52 hit whatever joint that you’re applying.
01:43:54 So sounds incredible.
01:43:55 It’s really freaking well, it’s awesome because you can because the variable load.
01:43:59 Now I could go straight from front raises to side raises or rear or curl because without
01:44:04 like because I don’t have to put it down.
01:44:05 So now my time under tension goes through the roof.
01:44:08 And by the way, the same effect with a flywheel trainer because the variable whatever you
01:44:12 put into it is what it kicks back.
01:44:14 So you have a constant time under tension because there’s no rest points either.
01:44:18 So all this stuff is working on maximizing time under tension, which anyway, it’s cool
01:44:24 stuff.
01:44:25 Anyway, I get excited.
01:44:26 Well, let me ask you about another thing you’ve already mentioned, but I find this really
01:44:31 interesting, which is barefoot running and you’re sort of a company, Barefoot Athletics.
01:44:40 Yeah.
01:44:41 And the tagline is optimizing the human to ground interface.
01:44:46 We’ve talked about this a little bit with the power lifting.
01:44:51 How do you think about the the foot ground interface?
01:44:57 It’s interesting that we know that we should train all these parts of our body to be able
01:45:05 to be stronger, be more resilient.
01:45:10 But we think that the foot is different, that we need to package it and modify it.
01:45:16 And somehow that that’s the science of making it healthy where I challenge people think
01:45:22 about that.
01:45:23 Like first thing you do in the morning is roll out of bed and put your weightlifting
01:45:27 belt on and wrap it on tight and wear it till you go to bed at night.
01:45:31 Do it with your shoulders, your knees, wake up and put some knee wraps on an elbow wraps
01:45:36 and see what happens.
01:45:38 Then you’ll get weaker, you’ll lose movement capacity and you’ll start affecting other
01:45:43 areas of the body very negatively because they will start picking up the compensation
01:45:47 for those joints that are not moving properly.
01:45:50 This is it.
01:45:51 What shoes are for is to protect you from the environment, from cuts and abrasions and
01:45:57 heat and things like that.
01:45:59 But the foot, let me the mind blowing is like every other area of the body.
01:46:07 You need to use it and you need to strengthen it and you need to learn to control it.
01:46:12 That’s it.
01:46:13 That’s all I have to say about the subject.
01:46:16 It’s that simple.
01:46:17 But somehow we have been sold entire industries like the orthotics industry.
01:46:23 It’s completely false.
01:46:25 Meta analysis of the data shows that orthotics do nothing beyond temporary relief from pain
01:46:29 over a six, eight week period of time and provide no long term benefit.
01:46:33 And I can’t tell you how many people I’ve eliminated back or knee or hip pain from getting
01:46:38 from working on strengthening and controlling the foot and ankle complex.
01:46:42 We believe we’ve villainized and said a low arch is a condition that needs fixed.
01:46:50 Like when it really is just controlling the foot and ankle complex and how they relate
01:46:54 to each other and how we use that.
01:46:56 Is it like go put on boxing gloves in the morning and do that for the next 20 years
01:47:01 and see what happens.
01:47:02 It’s not about finding the right shoe that fits because your foot has been deformed.
01:47:07 And so I’m not like some wacky go like, oh, you got to be barefoot forever.
01:47:11 Do this like, no, I’m just saying go spend some time using it, strengthen it, learn to
01:47:16 control it and you will work better in a shoe.
01:47:19 But the whole running shoe movement with the raised heel, that was the person that that
01:47:24 suggested that that in to Nike way back when they were trying to figure out what to do,
01:47:29 the reason, and he says it’s, it’s the worst thing that he ever did.
01:47:35 Because we were coming from an era of people wearing heeled shoes, which by the way came
01:47:40 from stirrups way back in the day.
01:47:42 That’s where the whole heel came from is to go into stirrup, but then it went into fashion.
01:47:45 And then the running craze started coming around in the seventies.
01:47:49 They’re they’re starting to push this, the general mass population.
01:47:52 And they realized that they were causing injuries and like, what are we going to do?
01:47:55 Well, that’s because everybody was in this position and had a shortened, a shortened
01:48:00 calf muscle.
01:48:01 And it’s like, well, the work around, let’s just put a heel on it so we don’t injure them.
01:48:06 That’s it.
01:48:07 And now because the raised heel, you got to raise the toe.
01:48:09 And then now with that, if you go stand on something and pull your inner toe in and in
01:48:15 a squat position, just reach down and do it.
01:48:17 You’ll see that you have no control over internal or next door and rotation of your, of, of
01:48:21 your leg.
01:48:22 You don’t and, or your foot and you actually have to put a support in for the arch to be
01:48:28 able to passively control those structures.
01:48:33 It’s just bandaid on top of bandaid on top of bandaid.
01:48:36 Use it, strengthen it.
01:48:37 If you want to wear some shoes cause they look good or fancy, I’m like, I have no problem.
01:48:40 I mean, I go out on a wife.
01:48:42 My wife will put on some high heels every now and again.
01:48:45 But all I’m saying is use your foot.
01:48:48 My thousand pound squat, my thousand pound deadlift, we’re done barefoot.
01:48:51 I’m not trying to sell you shoes.
01:48:53 Go do it with no shoe.
01:48:56 That’s what I’ve been promoting.
01:48:57 I did that for six years and I promoted it, but people ask me like, well, what do I do?
01:49:02 Because my gym requires shoes.
01:49:03 Okay.
01:49:04 What do I go?
01:49:06 And uh, and then I go, well, you know, you could pick up these other finger shoes or
01:49:11 whatever and they go, man, my wife won’t have sex with me if I do that.
01:49:15 And I go, I know mine either.
01:49:17 Like trust me, I’m not making this up.
01:49:20 Basically in that market markets to one segment and they’re still missing some gaps because
01:49:23 they, they still have a little bit too narrow of a toe box.
01:49:26 And if you’re lifting, you have the opportunity to really get that splay and start working
01:49:29 on this stuff better.
01:49:31 So, um, I just wanted to create a shoe.
01:49:33 These ones are odd colored cause it’s a partnership with Kabuki.
01:49:36 Normally we’ve got a black or a gray, uh, low top, high top sticks to the ground for
01:49:40 lifting so we can do that and very pliable.
01:49:43 It’s a moccasin.
01:49:45 It’s a modern day moccasin, but looks okay that you can wear it around in other areas.
01:49:49 If you, if you so choose, like, you know what the number one healthcare costs in America
01:49:53 is.
01:49:54 What’s that diabetes, uh, heart disease, cancer, low back pain.
01:50:05 Hmm.
01:50:06 Now, what do you attribute a little back pain to?
01:50:09 Well, it’s attributed to a lot of things, um, but inability to control spinal position,
01:50:13 um, which starts happening from, uh, some breathing issues.
01:50:17 Uh, it also happens from the foot.
01:50:19 Um, so there’s a lot of stuff, but everything that I do actually focus on improving this.
01:50:24 Uh, that, and it all starts with this is one thing, like this doesn’t affect breathing,
01:50:29 but, um, so it does actually affect breathing to some extent and spinal stabilization.
01:50:32 So the raised heel and toe will make you stride further, um, because of just how it operates,
01:50:39 but that overstride is a result of opening this.
01:50:43 So we opened the pelvis and diaphragm.
01:50:44 Did we talk about that and the impact that that has for controlling and spine?
01:50:47 Yeah.
01:50:48 I think we touched on that.
01:50:49 Um, but it, it’s all this stuff plays together.
01:50:52 So the gait affects that.
01:50:53 And so the shoe affects the gait and then, so it’s all connected.
01:50:57 All connected.
01:50:58 Let me be very purposeful with some conversation here though.
01:51:01 We’ve talked about periodization.
01:51:03 This was a big gap.
01:51:04 So, um, people go, yeah, well when people started running with those, they started having
01:51:08 injuries back when, uh, the finger, uh, company produced those and didn’t do the education
01:51:13 around this very simple concept.
01:51:14 You do not walk into the gym if you haven’t squatted and start squatting 225 from, from
01:51:18 max recs every week, day or every day over day.
01:51:22 And that’s what people did because they didn’t weren’t told that you need to build the capacity
01:51:27 to do this.
01:51:29 You go wear these and walk around in your office or wherever all day long, your feet
01:51:33 are going to hurt.
01:51:34 They’re going to be sore.
01:51:36 Do it for 10% of your time.
01:51:40 Do that for a month, then add some.
01:51:42 That will build the capacity to do this.
01:51:45 And then that’s going to start having the ability to strengthen, manage the foot.
01:51:48 And there’s a whole lot of other stuff.
01:51:49 I’ve got videos on things that you can do by whatever you want or just, just spend some
01:51:54 time out of them.
01:51:55 Like, that’s all that I want people to do because it is so simple and it has such a
01:52:00 profound impact.
01:52:01 Yeah, it does.
01:52:02 I, what I did, uh, I noticed when you walked out, when I walked in, I was like, Oh, Hey,
01:52:06 you’re spending some time without the last shoes on.
01:52:10 Uh, well, what I did, um, I think it’s already now two years ago and I was doing a lot of
01:52:15 running.
01:52:16 I do like a 10 mile run.
01:52:17 I would take my shoes off for the last like half mile and I run like that.
01:52:22 And that was for me really helpful to ensure that I have proper form.
01:52:27 Form that minimizes pain on the way I run.
01:52:29 I still like shoes.
01:52:31 I benefit a lot from shoes, the protection they provide, but it’s for running we’re referring
01:52:36 to, uh, especially trail running and so on.
01:52:40 And in the city when there’s glass and all those kinds of things, uh, but it’s really
01:52:44 important to have minimal sort of protection on your feet.
01:52:47 For me, at least it was to figure out the ways that my form basic movement and like
01:52:54 the positioning in the foot, the impact of the foot and everything, you know, the, the,
01:52:59 the lower leg, the entirety of the torso, really how it’s improperly positioned in
01:53:06 terms for the objective of minimizing pain and the barefoot running really helped fix
01:53:12 that for me.
01:53:13 Cause I figured out that I need to take shorter steps, more frequent, you know, all those
01:53:19 kinds of things.
01:53:20 And that really helps you figure that out.
01:53:22 Like let’s be realist about stuff, like, um, spend some time using it, strengthen it.
01:53:29 And I’ve got some great ways to do that and learn how to do that.
01:53:32 So yeah.
01:53:33 What is a good diet for strength development?
01:53:36 I’ve just to give you some context, I’ve been eating mostly meat, not for strength, mostly
01:53:41 for mental performance.
01:53:42 I just enjoy it.
01:53:44 Yes.
01:53:45 You need to have a base level of protein building blocks for tissue, right?
01:53:50 We need to have enough fats to be able to have hormones work and key processes in the
01:53:55 body.
01:53:56 We need to have, well, you don’t need to have from a performance aspect carbohydrates necessarily
01:54:00 because the other ones can convert into injury sources, but for a performance athlete, carbohydrates
01:54:06 can be very beneficial, uh, as well.
01:54:09 So, um, so I look at it as you want, you need a base level fats, you need a base level of
01:54:15 proteins and then you adjust the carbohydrate intake based on the needs.
01:54:19 I’m not anti carbohydrate by any means, um, cause a lot of people will, they look at me
01:54:25 now when they see like how lean I am and they, they jump to a conclusion, you must be keto.
01:54:29 You must be carnivore.
01:54:30 You must be whatever.
01:54:31 Like, so losing and gaining weight is simply eating less or eating more.
01:54:37 I mean it, ah, and it, we get so complicated.
01:54:41 Oh, that my fat, they’re like, what’s your fasting window?
01:54:44 If I’m, if I’m doing fasting, it’s just because it works with my, my environment.
01:54:50 Sometimes I do it.
01:54:51 Sometimes I don’t.
01:54:52 All that does is control how much calories that you take big success with keto and carnivore
01:54:57 diets.
01:54:58 A lot, uh, and, and put on weight with those, with those diets, um, you know, protein actually
01:55:05 has a thermogenic effect.
01:55:07 And so you have to have a massive amount of fats if you have a only meat diet because
01:55:11 you can literally starve to death.
01:55:13 There’s a, there’s a show where they put people out in the wilderness and this guy, the one
01:55:18 that won, one of the ones I looked on, they threw him way like up in the, uh, uh, past
01:55:22 a lot, you know, out the way out there, there was nothing, but he somehow got a caribou
01:55:26 and killed it.
01:55:27 And he still lost a pound a day for 30 days with the caribou because his fat was stolen
01:55:32 by a, uh, uh, and, and he could eat all the meat he wanted and then he almost got pulled
01:55:37 because his weight loss.
01:55:38 Right.
01:55:39 Um, but that isn’t actually a performance.
01:55:42 So those types of keto and carnivore are not performance diets.
01:55:45 So they’re not going to be as effective at supplying, uh, the energy needs for high capacity
01:55:53 training.
01:55:54 So don’t get me wrong.
01:55:55 I mean, you can be a successful, like elite athlete with a, with a vegan diet, but it’s
01:56:01 not as easy to do it with other diets.
01:56:05 So on you’re missing some base nutrients, so many nutrients and meat, I believe, uh,
01:56:11 having greens in your diet is really beneficial.
01:56:14 Lots of research, but there’s people in the other worlds that argue that they don’t need
01:56:18 them, but they help clear organs, provide micronutrients, all this sort of stuff.
01:56:22 So I eat simply a whole well rounded diet.
01:56:25 And I’ve gone from, I can go from 285 pounds squat and a ton of weight to eating less and
01:56:32 dropping all the way down to, you know, seven, 8% body fat with veins standing out everywhere
01:56:37 without a tissue on me, just with amazing, great tasting food to lose weight or be healthy
01:56:43 does not mean that you need to eat flavorless bland food.
01:56:48 So that’s the main thing I try to get across.
01:56:51 Yes.
01:56:52 Eat less to lose weight.
01:56:53 Eat more to gain weight.
01:56:54 Yep.
01:56:55 Make sure that you’ve got enough protein.
01:56:56 Make sure that you’ve got your micronutrients covered, which is going to cover by eating
01:56:59 real food.
01:57:01 Don’t go low fat, no fat.
01:57:03 If you want a performance, don’t go no carb, but if it works, any of those things.
01:57:07 So diet approach, when you look at diets, understand that they’re how aggressive they
01:57:13 are.
01:57:14 So like keto can make you lose a lot of weight.
01:57:16 Carnivore can make you lose a lot of weight.
01:57:17 A lot of that upfront is actually dropping glycogen stores.
01:57:21 So you’re actually just reducing water in your muscle and fat tissue.
01:57:25 So which is why it doesn’t, isn’t as great for a performance diet.
01:57:29 But understand that every diet also has a level of discipline and does it fit your lifestyle?
01:57:37 So I suggest people don’t find a diet.
01:57:40 You need to find a lifestyle because that’s what sustainable, I hate the word diet to
01:57:44 begin with.
01:57:46 But behaviors are sustainable and then do that and then over time the things you’ll
01:57:52 get to where you need to get.
01:57:55 Diet itself, just by the name of it is not sustainable because it is a short term thing
01:58:02 to get somewhere.
01:58:03 Yeah, I tend to try to measure it because I definitely have a love heat relationship
01:58:08 with food.
01:58:09 I tend to look back and say like by following this particular protocol, lifestyle, whatever,
01:58:18 what was the level of happiness?
01:58:19 Yes.
01:58:20 So not like weight loss or weight gain or all those kinds of things.
01:58:25 It’s the entirety of the picture, productivity, just feeling good throughout the day, socially
01:58:30 also, like interacting with people.
01:58:32 Because so much of a human connection, like I mentioned before, is over food.
01:58:37 And if you’re going to limit yourself in that regard, you’re limiting a certain fundamental
01:58:41 aspect of life.
01:58:43 A number of years ago, I did like 20 to 22 hour fasts every day.
01:58:49 And I’m like, well, this doesn’t work.
01:58:51 I can’t do business lunches and stuff like that.
01:58:53 So when I was in my fasting thing, I went to a 16 so I could have a light lunch just
01:58:57 for the social aspect of it and perform that.
01:59:01 And then that’s why the typical bodybuilding, like the eight meal a day diet has never worked
01:59:07 for me because I’ve always been a very bit like trying to fit that between meetings and
01:59:11 other stuff.
01:59:12 What that diet provides is it just you get less bloat in distention of a larger meal.
01:59:18 But at the end of the day, you get the same exact results.
01:59:20 Pick a lifestyle, live that you can have really great tasting food.
01:59:26 And that to me is the same thing.
01:59:28 And this is why I’m like really hitting this point, because also with the dieting and like
01:59:32 the approach like, oh, I’m going to do this and people pick these chicken and broccoli
01:59:37 recipes and guess what?
01:59:39 You’re going to break.
01:59:40 If you do not, if you do not enjoy it, you will break.
01:59:46 So it is a very important point.
01:59:50 Well, I also slightly push back or maybe to elaborate, if you don’t enjoy moderation,
01:59:59 for me particularly, I have trouble moderating certain things, most foods, I would say.
02:00:05 So my source of happiness comes with foods, even if they’re bland, the ones that can enjoy,
02:00:12 but enjoy moderation.
02:00:13 So there’s, I mean, I enjoy every piece of food.
02:00:16 So it’s like, it’s if you can enjoy the full lifestyle, it’s not just the particular experience,
02:00:23 but like the full journey.
02:00:26 Does it fit your lifestyle?
02:00:29 So let me ask about a complicated topic that’s sometimes a bit controversial, which is steroids
02:00:37 and maybe TRT, testosterone replacement therapy.
02:00:42 What role does that play in strength training?
02:00:44 All right.
02:00:45 We’re going to go there.
02:00:47 Let’s go there.
02:00:48 Yeah.
02:00:49 But it’s an important discussion to have.
02:00:52 I think that it’s something that I can be more transparent on.
02:00:58 In my past, I wasn’t able to do to the career that I had.
02:01:01 So just like covering that stuff in a, you know, one of the, on a public forum when you’re
02:01:09 highly looked at being an executive for recruiting and other stuff, like it was an area I had
02:01:14 to just kind of pass on, right?
02:01:18 Now I’ve used steroids.
02:01:21 I’ve used them since I was 33 and I basically just use TRT now after my big squat.
02:01:30 So for 10 years I used them and there’s some interesting components to this.
02:01:38 So one is just the gray area of what we call performance enhancing supplements.
02:01:44 So performance was a PEDs that the line of what defines a PED is ever shifting and it’s
02:01:55 shifting based on society norms, cultural norms, government body agencies, all these
02:02:00 sorts of stuff.
02:02:01 So I’m not making excuses here.
02:02:03 So I just want to elaborate before I actually start digging into the details here because
02:02:08 performance enhancing, I could take sodium bicarbonate and enhance my ability to perform
02:02:15 deadlifts for reps.
02:02:17 Guess what?
02:02:18 I did that for my Guinness world record for deadlifts in a minute.
02:02:20 Okay.
02:02:21 People do it for rowing or other, they use a high capacity type stuff.
02:02:27 It is performance enhancing.
02:02:28 It is a chemical, it is baking soda, all right?
02:02:35 They’re not able to make it illegal because everybody eats bread, well, not everyone.
02:02:40 And so it’s a little hard to test for no matter what you do at any level.
02:02:45 So that’s an extreme example, but other examples, you’re drinking an energy drink in that cup
02:02:51 there a little while ago and in America you can get an energy drink with 240 milligrams
02:02:56 of caffeine in it.
02:02:57 In Canada, that’s too dangerous.
02:03:00 You can only get 140, but you can go buy a ephedra and ephedra is illegal in America.
02:03:07 And so these things bounce back and forth all the time.
02:03:10 I could take Yohimbi and in Europe or Australia, it is a drug and classified and America, it
02:03:20 is not.
02:03:21 It’s an herbal root in a lot, I actually have one of my supplements except for the overseas
02:03:26 version.
02:03:27 Anyway, the point I’m getting is no matter what you do at some point, by someone’s standards,
02:03:34 you are cheating.
02:03:37 And because it is, you’re taking something that, but you could work around these things
02:03:44 with nutritional ways or other ways versus taking a chemical strip and there’s whole
02:03:48 lots of ways to do this, but it’s like, oh no, it’s steroids, it’s not, it’s injectable,
02:03:52 it’s not.
02:03:53 So somewhere there’s a culture or a person that will say you’re cheating no matter what.
02:03:57 So it’s a self defined, you need to define it for yourself unless you’re competing in
02:04:01 an organization that has testing, then it’s a straight ethical thing and it’s either right
02:04:07 or wrong in my opinion.
02:04:10 That’s kind of the overall dilemma of it is if you want to see what you’re totally capable
02:04:16 of, you have to decide yourself what’s okay or not to that level.
02:04:24 There is no body that can say something yes or no.
02:04:29 When there’s an event like the Olympics, maybe then you have a standard that you’re all trying
02:04:34 to adhere to and then it makes sense to keep a certain, like to be within, there’s an ethical
02:04:40 imperative.
02:04:41 So yeah, I’m not talking about that, I’m agreeing to compete in this by these rules.
02:04:46 Yeah, but when you’re trying to maximize your own performance, whatever that journey is,
02:04:51 whatever that goal is, that’s a different story and it’s not easy to figure that out.
02:04:57 You’re just like dancing around the subject, whatever.
02:05:00 Well guess what, I’ve got a prescription for growth hormone and testosterone.
02:05:06 It’s legal for me to take and you know what?
02:05:08 A lot of the people that are in front of the camera in the media, politicians and news
02:05:14 people and the people that are there saying the no drug stuff, they’re going to anti aging
02:05:19 clinics to look better and they have a prescription for growth hormone and testosterone themselves.
02:05:26 But in their eyes, it’s okay.
02:05:28 It is a prescription from their doctor because they have the money to do it.
02:05:34 So it’s legal and it’s fine.
02:05:37 If I is interesting in Oregon, anybody and I don’t know what other states over the age
02:05:44 of 16 can without parents permission by the way, walk into a gender clinic and as a female
02:05:51 and get a prescription for testosterone.
02:05:54 But as an athlete, if I’ve got low testosterone, I am so flow, I’ve got depression, I can’t
02:06:02 have sex with my wife.
02:06:04 It’s affecting my quality of life.
02:06:05 I will have to fight tooth and nail to get testosterone just as a prescription and then
02:06:11 I will get kicked out of my organization for competing.
02:06:15 So you understand how gray this stuff gets.
02:06:18 Do you think the stigma on testosterone is the reason we’re not having like a healthy
02:06:23 conversation about when it’s proper?
02:06:26 Like what are the proper uses of testosterone in an athlete’s life and just the regular
02:06:30 human life?
02:06:32 Yeah, absolutely.
02:06:34 And it’s just, it’s like anything.
02:06:35 It’s like I said, it is lines that we pick and draw.
02:06:38 Anytime you put that out there, people are going to have different opinions where those
02:06:42 lines are.
02:06:43 So now when it comes to strength, here’s an interesting thing.
02:06:46 In powerlifting, there’s tested federations and non tested federations.
02:06:50 So we can literally look at the statistical data and actually find out what do steroids
02:06:55 do.
02:06:56 And so it’s pretty clear that steroids provide about a 10% increase in strength on average
02:07:03 over not.
02:07:04 Now that does take out the fact that steroids will put you in, allow you to put on more
02:07:09 mass so you’ll go up a weight class a lot of times.
02:07:12 So as a whole, you could definitely lift more probably than the 10% over time, right?
02:07:19 And then we think about steroids as the ability to just put on muscle.
02:07:23 And here’s where things get a little interesting, even with people that use steroids is not
02:07:27 understanding the neurological impacts that steroids have.
02:07:31 Because you could take some steroids right now and be stronger in 10 minutes.
02:07:36 That’s clearly not done anything, you know, from a physiology standpoint to make you stronger.
02:07:42 But we have a tapped in neurologically to to elicit those games.
02:07:46 And there’s a whole lot that happens neurologically.
02:07:49 Like how much science is there in terms of all the different ways you could take steroids,
02:07:56 which kinds of steroids, the timing, the dose, the all of those things to develop the neurological,
02:08:03 the physical, the skeletal, like all the, you know, you’ve talked with such depth about
02:08:08 the science of strength building in terms of form, in terms of the equipment that you
02:08:16 use.
02:08:17 It seems like a component, you know, the use of steroids should be an equal level of scientific
02:08:24 rigor when applying them.
02:08:26 It is.
02:08:27 Now, the research is harder to get because of what it is.
02:08:32 But there is a lot of research that was done when they were legal.
02:08:36 So they were legal up in through the through, I think, the mid 80s.
02:08:40 And so a lot of the classical high, high benefit to low risk steroids were studied.
02:08:48 And then since then, there’s a lot of like designer steroids or new steroids that have
02:08:52 come up that don’t have a lot of research around safety and risk and things of that
02:08:58 nature.
02:08:59 And we can’t do that because it’s, you know, because of the legality around these things.
02:09:04 But some of the stuff on the neurological function is really just understanding how
02:09:09 that chemical structure works and what it’s doing to the neurotransmitters, what it’s
02:09:15 doing.
02:09:17 And so some of it is is really talking to people that have experience with it.
02:09:23 And the other is understanding those structures and what they do.
02:09:27 The neurological component, I think, is more interesting than than most, because the most
02:09:33 steroids act through increasing muscle protein synthesis.
02:09:37 That’s how you add more muscle is they have an anti catabolic effect and they have a muscle
02:09:42 protein synthesis enhancing effect.
02:09:45 So it reduces the amount of muscle that you waste and increases the amount of muscle that
02:09:49 you put on.
02:09:51 But the neurological component is is tremendously valuable for what it can do for your training
02:09:59 workout.
02:10:00 Like if I handle more load over time, I’m going to make more progress.
02:10:04 If I can actually just stimulate more neurological effects for a specific event, it’s going to
02:10:09 have an impact.
02:10:10 Right.
02:10:11 But there’s other ways that you can tap into this, too.
02:10:14 Things that you can tap into mentally with great practice, with meditation and other
02:10:18 stuff that will have the same effect.
02:10:21 People probably think I’m over speaking, especially steroid users that are listening to this.
02:10:25 Well, at least I’m talking out my ass, but I’m not.
02:10:29 Because I I have experience with this stuff on both ends.
02:10:34 And some of those areas, a lot of people don’t have the experience with that.
02:10:39 What I’ve kind of heard from people is the confidence that comes with steroids.
02:10:44 It feels like not to call it placebo, but it seems like the psychological benefits of
02:10:50 steroids is huge and that you feel like there’s a confidence that seems to be coupled with
02:10:57 the actual biological and chemical effects.
02:11:00 I have actually a neurological condition.
02:11:03 So I actually don’t feel a lot of that stuff that people because there are certain steroids
02:11:06 that like people like you’re like very extreme ones, like that would make somebody bite someone’s
02:11:14 ear off in a fight, for example, almost like aggression that and they literally do nothing.
02:11:21 I’m like always just chillin and I don’t like that effect.
02:11:26 But but neurologically, they’re still having those effects, but I don’t get those feels
02:11:31 that other people have from those.
02:11:34 But yes, there’s that immediate boost in aggression and a confidence and stuff that come with
02:11:39 a lot of those ones that deal on the neurological overall as good sense of well being, just
02:11:44 like from being on testosterone, like it’s going to affect your mood.
02:11:49 And it’s interesting.
02:11:50 So testosterone replacement therapy, if we walk down that path now and kind of switch
02:11:53 gears, you know, we find that men today have declining testosterone over what has historically
02:12:02 been in the past.
02:12:03 So right now, I think a thirty five year old testosterone is shown to be about half what
02:12:08 it was just 50 years ago.
02:12:12 So I don’t know if we could argue the point.
02:12:15 We don’t really have the science to validate any of it, but it could be society as far
02:12:21 as the impact that it’s having on the mental health for men.
02:12:26 It could be the the estrogens floating around in the water from all the chemicals and birth
02:12:31 control and all this sort of stuff could be a lot of things.
02:12:36 But it is a fact that average testosterone is significantly lower and that is going to
02:12:42 end up affecting life, quality of life, as well as your longevity, because it will affect
02:12:47 those things.
02:12:48 But on the other end, steroids and TRT, particularly steroids, come with a lot of negative health
02:12:53 benefits, not benefits, a lot of negative health ramifications.
02:12:58 And so, you know, if I knew what I know now, I don’t know that I would have gone that path.
02:13:02 I didn’t.
02:13:03 I didn’t till I was thirty three, which is kind of an outlier for a strength athlete.
02:13:07 I was I was a four times body weight deadlifter, eight hundred plus pounds at one ninety eight.
02:13:13 And it’s pretty dang strong before I went down that path.
02:13:18 And that’s because I wanted to see what I was capable of.
02:13:21 But I was reaching a point that it was either I need to do that or not.
02:13:24 My testosterone, my natural testosterone levels were actually I think below 300 is actually
02:13:30 the threshold.
02:13:31 So I was being told to go on TRT for the last couple of years, probably just because I was
02:13:35 pushing so hard and the stress level was driving my test down.
02:13:38 So it was self imposed more than likely.
02:13:41 But I put it off because I wanted to set all the drug free records and I set the ones that
02:13:46 I wanted.
02:13:47 And then it was thirty three.
02:13:48 I’m, you know, entering the age category and I’m like, I’m going to go on TRT.
02:13:52 I did not feel like I should be with TRT personally.
02:13:55 My ethical standard was I shouldn’t be competing in tested events anymore.
02:14:00 There are federations that will allow you with your you show up with your script and
02:14:04 you do your test and you’re below a certain level, but you’re still on.
02:14:08 But for me, I’m like, that’s not you.
02:14:09 So I’m like, I may as well at this point use steroids.
02:14:15 But since then, you know, understanding all those ramifications, you know, I might not
02:14:19 have gone down that route quite so fast and easily.
02:14:24 But I continued because I also have a lot of resources that other people don’t and being
02:14:29 able to assess and understand and put things in place to mitigate that.
02:14:32 So you need to be.
02:14:33 And the other thing is, once you go on, it’s literally a decision for life.
02:14:39 Not just but realistically is because your your quality of life, your feeling is going
02:14:45 to be enhanced quite a bit and you’re not going to want to go back.
02:14:49 And if you go back, it’s going to be less than it was before.
02:14:53 That’s how the endocrine system works.
02:14:54 There are ways to try to recover and bring that up, but it might be a while.
02:14:58 And if you’ve been on for a while, it definitely is not an option.
02:15:02 So those are big things that people need to understand that you’re going to have some
02:15:06 things in there.
02:15:07 And even TRT has some potential, especially at higher levels, that it’s going to, you
02:15:15 know, increase the risk for prostate cancer.
02:15:18 It’s going to potentially cause some hypertrophy of the left ventricle of the heart and some
02:15:24 potential plaque buildup of some of those key arteries around there that’s going to
02:15:27 have an impact on your cardiovascular health.
02:15:30 There’s things that you can do again, but everything is like the shoe story, right?
02:15:35 Where I’m anti anti shoe, but I’m going, well, we could put band aids on this.
02:15:40 So it’s…
02:15:41 But there’s a quality of life that comes with it, the increase in quality of life.
02:15:45 And if you do it correctly, I think for me, for me, I definitely would not live without
02:15:50 TRT, even with knowing what I know now.
02:15:53 It this age and the quality of life and being able to be there, have the energy, the recovery.
02:16:00 That’s a big thing where all this, though, I talked about muscle protein synthesis and
02:16:04 anti catabolism as being big drivers.
02:16:07 But recovery is the other big aspect that they that they offer probably as a result
02:16:12 of those, but that’s going to those are going to be the big enhancement.
02:16:17 So just doing steroids, steroids is going to increase all the other stuff that you do.
02:16:23 So if you if you have good training, if good diet, good quality of sleep, like all this
02:16:28 other stuff, then you can take advantage of that.
02:16:31 But you could choose steroids and nobody would know.
02:16:35 And honestly, you go down to 24 hour fitness and you’ll see a bunch of, you know, late,
02:16:39 you know, 19 to 21 year old kids that are all kind of red and one hundred and fifty
02:16:43 pounds that look like that don’t look like anything.
02:16:46 And they’re a bunch of them will be using steroids because they’re not like.
02:16:52 So it’s it’s not the it’s not going to make a champion, like you said, it’s not going
02:16:56 to at most.
02:16:58 Guess what?
02:16:59 I was already at an elite level.
02:17:00 I was one of the best in the world before I started using it doesn’t it doesn’t do that.
02:17:05 It does a 10 percent increase at best.
02:17:08 And that’s proven in the statistics, which is interesting because most people don’t know
02:17:11 this.
02:17:12 Like it the data is right there.
02:17:15 Yeah.
02:17:16 Yeah.
02:17:17 And that’s why I’m often saddened by maybe the negative view of somebody like Lance Armstrong,
02:17:27 who is one of the greatest athletes in history and everybody else that he was competing against.
02:17:33 I’m sorry.
02:17:34 Yeah.
02:17:35 I hate to blow anybody’s bubble.
02:17:36 But regardless, if I told you my ethical pieces with saying that you’re going to be at something
02:17:41 at an elite level.
02:17:44 You look at most a lot of those big figures out there.
02:17:49 When their income in your life relies on it, yeah, you’re going to push those limits.
02:17:53 So maybe maybe my ethical would change if if if I was in that position, too, because
02:17:58 here’s the thing where I believe like someone is.
02:18:02 I think people should avoid steroids.
02:18:05 TRT, probably something worth taking a look at what your levels are when you’re in the
02:18:10 thirty five to forty five range and see what decision you decide to make from there.
02:18:14 And that’s a decision that you make for the rest of your life.
02:18:16 The only times that you should be taking a look at steroids is if it’s it’s funding your
02:18:21 life.
02:18:22 It’s creating that it is your job and it’s doing like and honestly, it was for me.
02:18:28 I so was it the only thing?
02:18:30 No, no.
02:18:31 If you want to get into neurology, it’s neurotransmitters and alcohol is really interesting discussion
02:18:38 on performance enhancement.
02:18:39 So when I lift heavy and so I always promote it, like not more than a drink or two, like
02:18:45 once or twice a month is what all I’m talking about when I’m what I’m saying.
02:18:48 So what’s the timing of the drink?
02:18:50 Are we talking about three to five minutes before?
02:18:53 Yes.
02:18:54 And we’re talking about beer.
02:18:56 It doesn’t matter the the source.
02:18:58 So I shots are the easiest.
02:19:01 You want something that is not going to have some sort of regurgitory effect or bloating
02:19:05 effect or anything like that, but you want to have the quick hit of energy.
02:19:09 So it’s a preferential energy source moves above ketones, carbs, everything at seven
02:19:14 calories per gram.
02:19:15 But then there’s some really interesting things that happen, spikes blood pressure, which
02:19:19 is going to make weights feel lighter.
02:19:21 So when you’re in your early 20s and you’re trying to hit up, you know, some attractive
02:19:26 person at the bar, you’re with your buddies and you’re like, you know, and you got second
02:19:30 guess.
02:19:31 Oh, should I?
02:19:32 Should I?
02:19:33 And they go, have a shot of liquid courage and you have one.
02:19:36 And all of a sudden the second thoughts, the second guessing all that drops away.
02:19:41 Like you’re focused in the moment and you walk over and you actually perform a little
02:19:46 better like conversation wise than you normally would.
02:19:48 Now if you have five or six and then go over, you’re gonna make a fool of yourself.
02:19:51 So it’s all about timing and amount.
02:19:52 But there is a reason that that happens.
02:19:54 So anyway, I’m known for promoting this whiskey and deadlift concept.
02:19:58 I love this.
02:19:59 But it works.
02:20:00 It’s like the Eastern block.
02:20:01 That’s where it came.
02:20:02 That’s where I stole it from.
02:20:03 Because I was watching all these Russian lifters would have a shot of vodka or something before
02:20:08 they go lift.
02:20:09 And I’m like, there’s something here.
02:20:11 So I started experimenting with it and I’m like, that works.
02:20:14 And then I started researching.
02:20:16 Nobody talks about this stuff.
02:20:17 So it takes a while to start piecing together all the stuff that actually happens to make
02:20:21 that happen.
02:20:22 But it moves away the things that you’re going to, the concerns about the ramifications in
02:20:28 the future and the other stuff.
02:20:29 So the, um, but brings you into the moment and then the dopamine hit and the other, and
02:20:34 then it enhances whatever mood that you’re in.
02:20:37 But all of a sudden you get in the state much easier.
02:20:45 And so it’s really, really interesting, but it’s very, it’s a very small amount needed
02:20:49 and very time sensitive, but it can be so much more powerful than like drugs people
02:20:55 use for this stuff.
02:20:57 It ties really together with meditative state and other pieces to, to, to get you into that
02:21:01 flow state, those thoughts about failure, what if, what, like all that you, you get
02:21:07 into that zone, that moment, that time anyway.
02:21:13 So interesting.
02:21:14 An alcoholic is promoting out, you know, but there’s an important point here, which not
02:21:18 often talked about.
02:21:19 I think it is fascinating that because you can get into so much trouble with alcohol
02:21:24 when used in excess, people don’t often talk about the, the positive aspects of alcohol,
02:21:29 even in your college years.
02:21:34 It had a, it had a lasting effect on who I am as a person.
02:21:37 I don’t think people give enough credit to the positive aspect.
02:21:41 See, you could have accomplished a lot of those same things with a little more moderation,
02:21:45 which I think people should talk about more, which is like the way to open up a personality,
02:21:50 like the flowering of the full character and the weirdness and the, the, the, like the
02:21:56 beauty of who you are as a human being could be opened up with alcohol.
02:22:00 And that’s really interesting to think about.
02:22:01 You should try some podcasts with a, with a shot and, and these, I do this sometimes
02:22:10 with myself and guests and it will change the conversation, lubricates the conversation.
02:22:15 Definitely not the excess and which is what I learned because I went all the way in because
02:22:20 I do everything at extremes.
02:22:22 So it was a really hard lesson that took me a lot of time to unwind, but it is interesting
02:22:28 and people don’t discuss those things because it’s, it’s either this or this.
02:22:33 You’re one of the greatest strength athletes of all time.
02:22:37 So it’s worthwhile to consider how you optimize the, the feats of strength that you reach
02:22:43 for with things like steroids.
02:22:47 It makes perfect sense and I think that was a, from my perspective, I think it was probably
02:22:52 the right decision.
02:22:53 You’ve achieved something incredible that inspires a huge number of people.
02:22:58 That’s it.
02:22:59 And you’ve shown to yourself and to the world, but what the human body can accomplish.
02:23:03 Yep.
02:23:04 That’s incredible.
02:23:05 And no matter if I push to a less weight and if I disclosed everything that I did and
02:23:10 I didn’t, when I wasn’t using steroids, in my opinion, if we went through everything,
02:23:15 there would people that would say, you’re using performance enhancing, no matter what,
02:23:18 like it is, it’s straight up.
02:23:20 So you just need to be okay with it yourself.
02:23:22 And so I had to make the call, I want to see what the true potential is of every, let’s
02:23:27 throw everything out the window that I feel unless I feel it’s a risk from a, from a health
02:23:32 standpoint that I’m not willing to take on.
02:23:36 And because that’s, how do I like, it’s just picking and choosing and it’s just picking
02:23:41 and choosing.
02:23:42 I here’s what I want to know.
02:23:43 This is what I want to be able to try to achieve.
02:23:45 And so, yeah, yeah, that’s what I did.
02:23:48 And what you did is incredible.
02:23:50 Like it’s, it’s just awe inspiring.
02:23:52 And what Lance Armstrong did was incredible.
02:23:54 Yeah.
02:23:55 And that, and that, and that aged me up.
02:23:57 And what’s funny is the people that bash them are like on the media or politicians or maybe
02:24:01 some actors and guess what?
02:24:03 A ton of them are doing the same thing.
02:24:06 It’s hypocrisy at its finest.
02:24:08 Trust me.
02:24:09 But how many, how many of those figures you’re watching in movies that love to talk, you
02:24:13 know, be, you know, be political and do this and the news and all this, I’m telling you
02:24:18 they’re, they’re anti aging clinics, like all over California and everywhere else.
02:24:26 Who do you think is, keeps them in business?
02:24:28 It’s not the competitive lifter.
02:24:29 I’ll tell you that.
02:24:30 And they’re using peptides and also, and SARMs and all sorts of like.
02:24:38 You’re speaking to the hypocrisy.
02:24:39 I also want to speak to the fact, you know, somebody who’s a friend of mine, David Goggins.
02:24:44 I don’t know if you know what that is.
02:24:45 Yeah.
02:24:46 Ultra marathon runner, Navy seal.
02:24:48 He gets.
02:24:49 Pretty incredible person.
02:24:50 Yeah.
02:24:51 Incredible human being.
02:24:52 And he gets criticism like, you know, what you’re doing is, is bad for the body.
02:24:56 You know, you’re, you’re pushing yourself too far.
02:25:00 I find that the people that criticize are often people that haven’t truly pushed themselves
02:25:07 to the limit.
02:25:08 They haven’t actually worked hard in their life.
02:25:11 When you work hard, you realize how incredible it is that a human being can dedicate themselves
02:25:18 so fully to an effort the way you did, the way David Goggins does the way, the way the
02:25:25 greatest athletes do.
02:25:27 And there’s nothing that should be said beyond just sitting back in awe that humans can achieve
02:25:33 that.
02:25:34 That inspires me to do the best, whatever the hell I do, to be the best version of that.
02:25:40 There’s something about like athletic feats, especially like strength that just inspire
02:25:47 us to do the best, to be the best version of ourselves.
02:25:51 I don’t know.
02:25:52 That’s the only thing you should be saying as opposed to criticizing some little detail
02:25:58 of this and that.
02:26:00 It’s just awe inspiring that you push yourself to anybody that is at that level.
02:26:05 And this is funny, like in competitive sports, like you go online and people, it’s just bash,
02:26:09 bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash.
02:26:10 You go talk to anybody, anybody, anybody that’s a high level athlete within that field.
02:26:16 And nobody has a single bad thing to say about each other.
02:26:20 But all this chitter chatter down there, I mean, I know exactly what you’re saying.
02:26:25 So if you, I would say, cause I have love for all those folks, especially when you’re
02:26:30 younger, you have a little bit of that desire to criticize others.
02:26:36 I think that should be channeled in improving your own life.
02:26:40 Anytime that you feel that way, that is when you need to turn inward and it’s hard to do,
02:26:46 but there is a reason that you have those emotions around someone else and what they’re
02:26:53 doing that you have an opportunity to look at yourself and know why you feel that way.
02:27:00 And that, guess what?
02:27:01 That’s going to be the hard thing to do.
02:27:02 That’s going to be the thing.
02:27:03 Again, that’s stirring you a little bit because it’s so much easier to sit there and, or talk
02:27:09 to your confidant or whatever instead of go, why does that bother me?
02:27:14 Why does what that person doing or what that person’s achieving bother me?
02:27:19 It’s like a difficult question that I often ask others, whether it’s better to work hard
02:27:29 or work smart.
02:27:31 I like to ask that question because it helps me get a sense of the human being.
02:27:36 And I think I, let me just say like, I often, I often like people that answer that would
02:27:45 work hard.
02:27:49 Even though the quote unquote right answer is work smart, meaning like finding the optimal
02:27:56 efficient way to achieve a certain goal, I find that people that answer work smart don’t
02:28:03 actually find the optimal efficient way to achieve a goal.
02:28:08 It seems like the people that at least certainly early in life strive to work their ass off,
02:28:15 even that means doing the inefficient, the dumb thing, just to learn the mistake.
02:28:21 The spirit behind the human spirit behind the person that says, or a card is the one
02:28:27 I connect with, but I’m torn, especially in the, in the war culture, in the tech sector
02:28:31 where people answer work smart, what would you, what would you say about that tension?
02:28:38 This definitely encompasses like, I’m the intellectual and I’m the meathead.
02:28:44 I’m the work around the clock and go fix the processes and make it so much better type
02:28:51 person.
02:28:52 Right.
02:28:53 That’s, that’s, that’s me in a whole, that’s everything.
02:28:54 That’s my life story.
02:28:55 Right.
02:28:56 Busting your ass to find the easiest way possible to both.
02:29:00 So like I will, I will build a custom hydraulic cart that will lift my plates up to the height
02:29:11 of my, my squat.
02:29:14 So that I can minimize a roll it over next to it and then minimize the effort of it going
02:29:18 on and off to be able to lift the most amount of weight as possible so, so that I can save
02:29:26 the energy from here, from lifting those up and the fatigue of my back being in bad position.
02:29:31 So I can nearly kill myself over here.
02:29:35 Right.
02:29:36 I, my wife, anybody will say, I’m a workaholic.
02:29:42 And the first thing that I would do when it would be doing a company, a company turnaround,
02:29:47 they’d hire me, come in and I would be taking over.
02:29:49 So for someone that wasn’t successful, but it was usually hardly ever for lack of want
02:29:54 or trying.
02:29:55 So a lot of times they knew they were unsuccessful and they were running around working six,
02:30:00 seven days a week, 12 hour days doing so much and it’d be like, well, you need to do this.
02:30:05 And they train me on like all the reports and this and all the things and like, good
02:30:09 luck, good luck.
02:30:11 I couldn’t do it.
02:30:12 And the first thing I would do is nothing.
02:30:17 I would do nothing because then I would find what actually keeps coming back, the things
02:30:27 that I need to do and how much of it was filling the space.
02:30:31 Because so much of human nature when you’re failing is to make yourself feel like you’re
02:30:37 accomplishing thing.
02:30:38 This is when things go on your list, on your checklist and you start like rolling up.
02:30:44 So you’re running around just getting shit done.
02:30:47 Yeah.
02:30:48 Being busy.
02:30:49 Right.
02:30:50 And so, but at the same time, like find somewhere in my career, something I’ve done where I
02:30:57 haven’t outworked everybody, just so much on distilling things down to what’s important.
02:31:04 And you’ve got to make time to sit back and assess and think and be introspective.
02:31:14 You have to make time for this because if not, you’re going to waste so much time sitting
02:31:20 there walking sideways when all you got to do is move just one step in front of the other
02:31:28 each day.
02:31:29 Just one.
02:31:30 And I say, because it’s going to add up, but you could spend six months knocking shit out,
02:31:38 doing your routine, busting your ass and not take that one step.
02:31:44 So you’ve got to distill stuff down.
02:31:46 You’ve got to really understand like what’s important to you in life and where you’re
02:31:50 going.
02:31:51 And, uh, when you’re looking at anything in your life, the first thing that you need to
02:31:55 do is figure out, do I need to do it and just quit doing it, just quit doing things in your
02:32:02 life.
02:32:03 And you’ll see that a lot of stuff that you think has to be done, doesn’t have to be done.
02:32:11 You’d be surprised.
02:32:14 And then from there, this is the tech.
02:32:15 Okay.
02:32:16 And then of that, what can I, what can I automate?
02:32:19 What can I not have to do in a repeated fashion?
02:32:23 And then the last one, yeah, wherever possible, if it’s not something that I’m adding tremendous
02:32:28 value to, like my uniqueness, people are like, oh, you must like do the auto work on your
02:32:32 vehicles cause you love working.
02:32:34 I’m like, fuck that.
02:32:35 I don’t.
02:32:36 And they’re like, what?
02:32:37 That doesn’t make any sense.
02:32:38 And I’m like, no, I love creating things, but I don’t want to do that stuff.
02:32:44 So you could use delegating if you’re a manager position, but it’s outsourcing, whatever it
02:32:50 is.
02:32:51 But there are also so many things this, and this, this ties back to your point, uh, around
02:32:56 just doing it.
02:32:58 There’s a point to like experiencing all levels to really understand things.
02:33:03 You need to spend time at the same time doing all those things.
02:33:07 Cause there could be good, huge, massive gaps in there that you’re not aware of that are
02:33:13 key for you or key to be having done different or so on.
02:33:17 So um, like in my company days, I was one of the few executives that came in that could
02:33:24 do anything on the floor from code to machine, run away, the mill weld, do all step into
02:33:31 engineering, like, and, and that added tremendous value to me to having had spent time being
02:33:40 a doer and not enough people want to be, you’ve got to just go do shit.
02:33:45 You need to spend time in your life chopping wood, you need to have experience trying and
02:33:52 doing all these things that you would never like my skillset is massive because I want
02:33:58 to know, like you need to have those touch points.
02:34:01 My job, my title is chief visionary, but I’ve spent time doing everything.
02:34:12 It’s not about just like creating this amazing strategy or vision.
02:34:16 And I’m just going to be there in this person that directs and like, like you can’t be effective.
02:34:21 You cannot connect the dots unless you’ve been in the moment with everything.
02:34:27 Yeah.
02:34:28 Low level stuff.
02:34:29 Sometimes it’s doing stupid shit that you’re not uniquely qualified to do that anybody
02:34:34 could do, but you did it anyway.
02:34:36 Just the training environment.
02:34:38 People hit me up at a, at a, at a school or wherever like, Hey, how do I get into, I want
02:34:42 to grow my, grow my brand online.
02:34:45 I want to do this.
02:34:46 Like, where do I, where do I start?
02:34:47 And I’m like, go get a job at planet fitness or 24 hour fitness.
02:34:52 They’re like, but I want to, you know, where, how do I get, you know, recognized and write
02:34:56 articles and be an online coach.
02:34:57 I’m like, you need to go spend a few years one on one training people to learn like the
02:35:05 interaction, how people respond, there’s base levels you have to do.
02:35:09 You’ve got to go work your way up from the ground.
02:35:13 Yeah.
02:35:14 I truly believe it.
02:35:15 Well, I think that’s the hard work piece that I’m speaking to that I like it when people
02:35:20 have been humbled by the hardness of life, like how difficult it is to do stuff.
02:35:26 And it does, I went and got my MBA, I went to MIT.
02:35:30 I don’t need to do that stuff.
02:35:31 I’m above that.
02:35:32 Yeah.
02:35:33 Yeah.
02:35:34 And since you’ve been humbled by doing those things, I feel like you can truly explore
02:35:40 the optimization that you’re talking to, finding the ways where you’re uniquely capable to
02:35:46 add value to the world.
02:35:48 And then, and then again, work your ass off to be the best in the world at that thing.
02:35:53 Yes.
02:35:54 So it’s always,
02:35:55 But then don’t waste your time on shit that’s not aligned.
02:35:57 Yeah.
02:35:58 That’s the only, so that’s, I guess there’s a lot of context I put around that, but.
02:36:02 Yeah, that was like a long answer to a, a long, beautiful answer to an unanswerable
02:36:09 question.
02:36:10 Do you have advice outside of all this discussion to young people today about career, about
02:36:15 life?
02:36:16 Since you’ve done so many things, you’ve overcome a lot of things.
02:36:20 Think high school, college student, thinking about what to do in their life.
02:36:24 Do you have advice for those guys and girls?
02:36:28 Yeah.
02:36:29 Yeah.
02:36:30 First is you don’t have it figured out, so don’t worry.
02:36:34 Just jump in.
02:36:35 Yeah.
02:36:36 Yeah.
02:36:37 We talked, you know, a lot about understanding your values and aligning all that stuff, but
02:36:43 you got to have a base level of start exploring and learning and just spending the time doing
02:36:49 like pick something, let me elaborate a little bit.
02:36:54 No, you know what?
02:36:55 A lot of people struggle with that aspect now because the choice, there’s so much choice
02:36:58 it’s difficult to pick something, but I think it does blow down to you should pick something
02:37:03 and don’t worry about it.
02:37:04 And then, but within that you can start discovering the things that are there for you.
02:37:10 Like I, I talked about, I made this huge shift, I threw away whole life, but I don’t regret
02:37:17 anything about that.
02:37:19 I wouldn’t be where I was if I didn’t walk through and learn those things.
02:37:23 And in fact, in the course of that, I learned just how much that inspiring people and helping
02:37:30 them realize the potential far beyond what they thought was capable.
02:37:35 And guess what?
02:37:36 That was leadership 101 in managing people base level, floor level, right?
02:37:42 And I got a lot out that was perfectly aligned with what, and that’s what I realized.
02:37:46 It didn’t matter what industry I was in or any of those other things, but I was able,
02:37:54 you can see so many things, there’s so many paths that you can go down to help you realize
02:37:59 what those things are.
02:38:01 And you’re going to be able to find a lot of those nuggets and develop those.
02:38:06 Do you think that I could have just gone to school and got out and started a globally
02:38:14 recognized brand within a few years without having been schooled in business while getting
02:38:21 paid for it by others for years?
02:38:24 And in fact, that entire time I knew that that’s what I wanted to do, but I didn’t go
02:38:29 out on it.
02:38:30 I mentored some of my friends along the same path to go, no, they’re like, I’m ready.
02:38:35 I’m ready to go do this.
02:38:36 And I’m like, no, now you need to go get a job.
02:38:39 Yeah, you know, engineering management, design, all that stuff.
02:38:42 Go get a job as a manager now.
02:38:44 Like, oh, that’s a step down.
02:38:45 I can’t do that.
02:38:46 I’m like, go try it.
02:38:47 A couple of years later, oh my God, that was such a good move.
02:38:49 I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
02:38:50 And now they’re an executive for freaking a fortune 500 company.
02:38:54 And the same thing, like I sat there knowing that I was getting a free education.
02:39:00 Don’t stress yourself out as my, that’s my advice.
02:39:03 Don’t stress yourself out that you’ve got to have this perfect thing because this process
02:39:08 of understanding your values and the introspect, that takes time.
02:39:12 You can get a job where you’re getting paid to learn.
02:39:16 Exactly.
02:39:17 That’s a good deal before you launch on your own.
02:39:21 You mentioned going back to darkness.
02:39:24 I’m Russian, so I like going back to darkness.
02:39:27 You suffer from depression.
02:39:29 You consider suicide.
02:39:31 Do you ponder your own death these days?
02:39:33 Do you think about your mortality?
02:39:35 Are you afraid of death?
02:39:37 I definitely think about mortality.
02:39:42 And am I afraid of my own death?
02:39:44 It depends on the moment.
02:39:46 If I’m in the middle of a project, I definitely want to finish that project, man.
02:39:52 But I don’t fear it so much.
02:39:57 I fear leaving my kids or my wife and not being able to be there for them.
02:40:09 That bothers me.
02:40:10 Outside of that, I know that I put everything into the life that I’ve lived.
02:40:18 Like you said, there’s always more, but I’ve lived hard.
02:40:24 I’ve loved hard.
02:40:28 Every moment in my life, I’ve made connections and impacted people around me for the better.
02:40:36 And this tracks back, which is crazy when we were doing the documentary and they’re
02:40:39 interviewing people through my whole life and the consistency of the themes of anyone,
02:40:43 like anything for Duffin, like just sure, I’ll fly in from Boston.
02:40:49 These people, it was crazy.
02:40:53 Everybody had a story about me giving, just over and over.
02:40:57 And I didn’t even really.
02:40:58 It’s just the way you were.
02:41:00 I’ve been all in.
02:41:04 I have a lot more I want to do, but I don’t have things that regret have not done in like,
02:41:13 I don’t fear it.
02:41:15 I don’t fear it.
02:41:16 Yeah.
02:41:17 It’s like the, I don’t know if you know the Bukowski poem, go all the way, otherwise don’t
02:41:21 even try.
02:41:22 It seems like you embody that poem and you’ve accomplished some incredible things and serve
02:41:28 as an inspiration to a huge number of people.
02:41:31 Chris, you’re an amazing human being.
02:41:33 I’m really honored that you would spend your valuable time with me.
02:41:37 Thank you so much for talking with me today.
02:41:39 It was incredible.
02:41:40 I can’t wait to check out all the cool stuff you’ve engineered with Kabuki Strength.
02:41:44 So I’m obviously, I love the, I love strength.
02:41:47 I love strength training.
02:41:49 I love the idea of strength.
02:41:50 I love the equipment and the engineering approach that you take to strength.
02:41:56 You’re an incredible human, both on the things you’ve accomplished in terms of your own strength
02:42:02 feats and the kind of science and engineering you bring to the field that many others could
02:42:10 use.
02:42:11 So thank you so much for talking to me.
02:42:12 Thanks for having me on.
02:42:13 That was quite the final thing.
02:42:17 Thank you.
02:42:18 Thanks for listening to this conversation with Chris Duffin and thank you to Headspace,
02:42:23 Magic Spoon, Sun Basket and Ladder.
02:42:26 Check them out in the description to support this podcast.
02:42:30 And now let me leave you with some words from Arnold Schwarzenegger.
02:42:34 Strength does not come from winning.
02:42:36 Your struggles develop your strengths.
02:42:39 When you go through hardship and decide not to surrender, that is strength.
02:42:45 Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.